new tusande amazing

[Kankuro puppet master]

new card is up and it is amazing yes poisn decks will be a alot better.

http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/showthread.php?t=44409

[_Shadow77_]

The Tsunade, is like a Caged Bird every turn...

How about Wind/Earth Puppets with this:
http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=4&c=j156

+ Tsunade + Caged Bird :D

[Gaara119928]

its rlly good wind just got a nice boost

[Kisame8988]

Its a Super rare too. Eh, its decent.

SexyGaara just got a nice bonus?

[Neji]

I like how it says removing the coins on the Ninja(s) is optional. It also say's beginning of their turn, which is before drawing. Honestly, I could be a total ******* with this card if I meet someone who didn't know that rule, since when they draw, it'd be too late to remove the coins.

Overall, I like this card a lot on paper, but I'm still gonna have to playtest it to see how powerful it really is.

[randemalex]

Wow that Tsunade is awesome and its a SR thats really good

[SAI]

Hooray SR's are amazing again! :D

[gama toad]

well atleast we no that As Equals will be side decked
i thinkthat this tsunade is by far the best tsunade out there

[HyugaNeji]

The Tsunade, is like a Caged Bird every turn...

How about Wind/Earth Puppets with this:
http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=4&c=j156

+ Tsunade + Caged Bird :D

Lawls! Yeah, I would love to see Puppet decks become competitive, the only real problem is I for one would want to run Jiraiya [IOTHT] to recyle armed puppets and such but that cause me to splash lighting or earth witch I don't nessacarily want to do...

[kirbyrocks101]

i still kinda like QFP tsunade...althru this one is pertty annoying too :P
yea and,tsuande+cage bird=TOTAL CONTRAL

[_Shadow77_]

Lawls! Yeah, I would love to see Puppet decks become competitive, the only real problem is I for one would want to run Jiraiya [IOTHT] to recyle armed puppets and such but that cause me to splash lighting or earth witch I don't nessacarily want to do...

Lol, true. But with Caged Bird, Tsunade, and Armet Puppet who needs more!?

It'll make it more consistent also, if you don't splash in Lightning.

[shikamaru/tsunade combo]

well i love the card but it looks like that other mission could see some action now

[Zero Master Of Percision]

well atleast we no that As Equals will be side decked
i thinkthat this tsunade is by far the best tsunade out there

there isnt realy a point to side decking against this... s soon as she uses the effect... you take a coin off on the beining of your turn. is it worth it to play a mission to remove the 1 remaining coin?

As far as tsunade goes, the ONLY things keeping her in check is shikamaru and gaara, allowing you to prevent her effect from happening. I give her a 9/10, because she still has crappy stats.

attacking into tsunade gives your opponent a free CIP :eek: powerful powerful card.

-Zero

[shikamaru/tsunade combo]

i like it the tsunade is finally good well super wise i just hope it stays super like not a super that is easy and is everywhere

[ModSoulKyuubi00]

I Honestly Think This Tsunade Really Isnt That Good. I Would Still Run The One Who Protects The Big Tree Because Wow, Two Drug Coin for Two Turns. That Not Really That Great If Yoy Think About It. When The Coins Are Gone. What Now? And The One Who Protects The Big Tree Last Until She is Injured.

TOWPTBT over New Sr tsunade.

[Neji]

When The Coins Are Gone. What Now?

You place 2 more coins on the same ninja? >_>

[Zounder]

I Honestly Think This Tsunade Really Isnt That Good. I Would Still Run The One Who Protects The Big Tree Because Wow, Two Drug Coin for Two Turns. That Not Really That Great If Yoy Think About It. When The Coins Are Gone. What Now? And The One Who Protects The Big Tree Last Until She is Injured.

TOWPTBT over New Sr tsunade.

Did you read the card correctly? You keep adding coins EACH TIME she is opposed. So to answer your question, when the coins are gone, you add new ones.

And yes, Big Tree lasts until injury, this Tsunade lasts even after injury. Valid is fun.

[ModSoulKyuubi00]

But I PERSONALLY Thinks Its Not that Great.

[GaiOkashiiNingen]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here....

As it reads, I would say the removal of the drug coins and the meaning of the coins itself is NOT a mechanic, it's a card ability that's printed on Tsunade, therefore wouldn't happen if she isn't on the field. Remove her, you still have drug coins, but they become useless unless Tsunade is on the field again.

She's good, and could cause some pain.

[shikamaru/tsunade combo]

yeah but this just means shika (f) is going to be run more still good but not the best yet i still want it

[Zero Master Of Percision]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here....

As it reads, I would say the removal of the drug coins and the meaning of the coins itself is NOT a mechanic, it's a card ability that's printed on Tsunade, therefore wouldn't happen if she isn't on the field. Remove her, you still have drug coins, but they become useless unless Tsunade is on the field again.

She's good, and could cause some pain.

exactly. Kill her or negae her or you find yourself in a world of pain.

But I PERSONALLY Thinks Its Not that Great.
You are PERSONALY wrong if you think big tree is better.

-Zero

[Shino_Nara]

i dont like this card. it is only for battling against her. so think about it, who will block this ninja with an actually good ninja lol. it will always just be chumped block until they get something to beat her. and then it stinks. yes they cant send out for a turn but thats it.

even if u do set this up as a back and chump with 1-4 less power (so that she lives and your head gets injured), its still only descent. you would be sacrificing a ninja and probably a good one since she has 1 support and youneed to be in that 1-4 range.

honestly, a bad card i think. id still much rather use the big tree.

[ModSoulKyuubi00]

i dont like this card. it is only for battling against her. so think about it, who will block this ninja with an actually good ninja lol. it will always just be chumped block until they get something to beat her. and then it stinks. yes they cant send out for a turn but thats it.

even if u do set this up as a back and chump with 1-4 less power (so that she lives and your head gets injured), its still only descent. you would be sacrificing a ninja and probably a good one since she has 1 support and youneed to be in that 1-4 range.

honestly, a bad card i think. id still much rather use the big tree.

Thank You! At Least I am Not The Only One That Thinks It Not Good

[Kankuro puppet master]

i dont like this card. it is only for battling against her. so think about it, who will block this ninja with an actually good ninja lol. it will always just be chumped block until they get something to beat her. and then it stinks. yes they cant send out for a turn but thats it.

even if u do set this up as a back and chump with 1-4 less power (so that she lives and your head gets injured), its still only descent. you would be sacrificing a ninja and probably a good one since she has 1 support and youneed to be in that 1-4 range.

honestly, a bad card i think. id still much rather use the big tree.

Ok learn the freaking game. For god sakes, I will let you in on a secret. She has a justu that poisons a ninja that is stand by. I built a deck around it before. Now the deck will come back and be more powerful then ever. So please don't pretend like you know everything about this card game because you don't.

[Zounder]

i dont like this card. it is only for battling against her. so think about it, who will block this ninja with an actually good ninja lol.

Ok, be my guest, NEVER block my Tsunade with a good ninja, and soon I'll kill all your chumps, and you keep giving me BRs, and I win.

it will always just be chumped block until they get something to beat her. and then it stinks.

This argument can be applied to any good ninja in the entire game. Of COURSE Im never going to block a team, regardless of ninja, unless I can beat it. Thats why we have jutsus and such. Plus, with Tsunade having 8 combat, it's going to be hard to find a answer that isn't named Gaara.

even if u do set this up as a back and chump with 1-4 less power (so that she lives and your head gets injured), its still only descent. you would be sacrificing a ninja and probably a good one since she has 1 support and youneed to be in that 1-4 range.

Who in their right mind would do that?

[Neji]

i dont like this card. it is only for battling against her. so think about it, who will block this ninja with an actually good ninja lol. it will always just be chumped block until they get something to beat her. and then it stinks. yes they cant send out for a turn but thats it.

That's why you stick an ES, Itachi RA, Shika/Asuma, Aoi, Baki, and other Anti Chump block cards behind her so it doesnt matter if they do that =/

If I have any of those, by the time they get something to beat me, it may be too late.

Not to mention Wind still has Fan, so it can negate the more powerful removal jutsus, and w/e else you have in your hand depending on what other element you run with it.

[DFCFPS]

amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hatake Kakashi]

This card really is good.....I mean it's not too hard to see how effective this thing can be.

I really won't make any real judgement until it is tested and the rest of the US exclusive cards are released. Despite how good an effect is, you never know how it'll really do in a good game : /.

[Tsunade's mutt]

I think she'd be a good ninja if she were a turn down. Like turn 5. But with all the early game decks out now, you'd die if your deck was built around her.

BUT, come next set, people will start to look forward to late game decks and she will be good then. Poison decks are sure to look up now.:)

[gama toad]

i also think that instead of drug counters that they should hav been poison counters so that gen could counter her

[Zero Master Of Percision]

i also think that instead of drug counters that they should hav been poison counters so that gen could counter her

if they were poison counters she would be broken. Use tunades effect, then kill her off. Now you cant send out ninjas and you cant take the coins off gradualy? lolwtf.

Drug coins are like tenketsu coins. they are worthless tokens. Tsunade (like neji) gives the effect to the coins.

-Zero

[Sharingan-Kakashi-Hatake]

All I have to say about her is Earth will stop her dead...
Earth has Caged Bird and Cursed Fate to keep her from the field and Shikamaru [usF] with Choji or The First Hokage will Injure her so she can't give out poison counters.

She isn't Amazing however She isn't Horrible so...

[Sensei2312]

All I have to say about her is Earth will stop her dead...
Earth has Caged Bird and Cursed Fate to keep her from the field and Shikamaru [usF] with Choji or The First Hokage will Injure her so she can't give out poison counters.

She isn't Amazing however She isn't Horrible so...

Well just realize that your opponent can use those same cards, more then likely they will too. Well at least with the Choji's and Shikas, but they could run the first if they decided to go the Earth/Wind idea of course. She is pretty good, her great stats like usual along with a pretty helpful ability late game when you are trying to put your opponent away or get back an edge or two isn't too horrible at all, I would look for her maybe later on...

[Sharingan-Kakashi-Hatake]

I mean don't get me wrong she is a nice card with good combat and a good effect but I see Earth/Wind (again), Earth/Fire (still), and Wind/Fire (still).
Maybe new decks will sprout with her being unleased into our world. :)

[Dragonfang21]

ummm ya that is broken lol

[gama toad]

if they were poison counters she would be broken. Use tunades effect, then kill her off. Now you cant send out ninjas and you cant take the coins off gradualy? lolwtf.

Drug coins are like tenketsu coins. they are worthless tokens. Tsunade (like neji) gives the effect to the coins.

-Zero
oh i see your point now zero i forgot

[Yondaime-sama]

She's amazing. 'nuff said.

[missingo]

ummm ya that is broken lol
I think it is powerful, but to say broken you have to actually play the card with a borderline card like Tsunade..

Plus the other preview card pwns her...so she isn't broken as of now..

[Chidorimaster1993]

It's good, but I wouldn't run it competitively. It can be used in a bunch of interesting ways though, but if I had to choose between a Tsunade than my bet would be the Big Tree one.

Well, playtesters are getting better, if this were to bet like a set or two ago they proboly put poison coins on Tsunade and than maybe made As Equals for Permanent X missions, too.

Than, we'd need to run As Equals to counter tsunade...

[missingo]

It's good, but I wouldn't run it competitively. It can be used in a bunch of interesting ways though, but if I had to choose between a Tsunade than my bet would be the Big Tree one.
Eh, I like Big Tree, but this one seems better for me...

[Zounder]

I think it is powerful, but to say broken you have to actually play the card with a borderline card like Tsunade..

Plus the other preview card pwns her...so she isn't broken as of now..

First sentence is right, she isn't completely busted, and even if we thought she was, we need to see what else we have in store next set.

But As Equals doesn't counter her at all. After you play it, Tsunade just gets right back to work.

A better counter would be caged bird or cursed fate.

[Matsu Kuon]

I have said this many times and I will say it again. GOOD CARD BAD META FOR THE CARD.

[Knight X]

This card is way too good.

[missingo]

First sentence is right, she isn't completely busted, and even if we thought she was, we need to see what else we have in store next set.

But As Equals doesn't counter her at all. After you play it, Tsunade just gets right back to work.

A better counter would be caged bird or cursed fate.
But As Equals removes counters, so it helps.

Of course Cursed Fate/Caged Bird are better! They basically counter anything..

[Knight X]

As Equals is bad. If it removed them from Missions it would be decent, though.

[missingo]

As Equals is bad. If it removed them from Missions it would be decent, though.
I would be amazing..it would pwn all missions..

[Zero Master Of Percision]

I have said this many times and I will say it again. GOOD CARD BAD META FOR THE CARD.

.........You have no idea what you are saying. We have NO IDEA, whats instore for the upcoming format -_-

As for this meta, if she was available id play 2 atleast.

-Zero

[Kaiten]

I can totally see my friends getting ready to use this card to its full potential if they get a hold of it... x.x

The effect is nice, and even if chump blockers are being sent out every turn, well..When they run out and have to use their main big ninja's..well..Hello Victory.

But still..."Drug Coins"...yet we dont get "Wine Coins" or another word thats suitable for that for Drunken Lee..I mean really, is Bandai saying that being drugged is fine, taking suicidal actions is neat..but getting drunk is a big no?

Either way, I rate this card a 8/10.

[Matsu Kuon]

.........You have no idea what you are saying. We have NO IDEA, whats instore for the upcoming format -_-

As for this meta, if she was available id play 2 atleast.

-Zero

You are right I dont know what is instore for the upcoming format, hence I shouldn't have said that. Yet lets talk about all the cards that cancel her effect.

A) Garra
B) Choji Shika
C) Shika
D) APW (which should make the meta cus of sa)


Plus we are not exactly sure on how she works yet (does her effect still work if she is not longer in play?) I also believe she is off element for this meta based on what little we know of the cards coming out (which is not much I know). Maybe I am wrong it is too early to say whether she is good or not. But if Wind doesn't make the meta then she should be just like shika flex in your eye GARB.

[Ninja_Haku]

You are right I dont know what is instore for the upcoming format, hence I shouldn't have said that. Yet lets talk about all the cards that cancel her effect.

A) Garra Shika could also be said for him
B) Choji Shika If your opponent still has these around by turn 6, you did something wrong.
C) Shika Caged Bird, Cursed Fate, or Simply putting Tsunade in the back.
D) APW (which should make the meta cus of sa) lol


Plus we are not exactly sure on how she works yet (does her effect still work if she is not longer in play?) Read the effing card

But if Wind doesn't make the meta then she should be just like shika flex in your eye GARB.Flex is GARB.

Response in quote.

[Matsu Kuon]

Response in quote.


Dude settle down. I said that I shouldn't have said what I said was a fact. We still wont know how good she is until we find out if wind will be viable to play. I did read the effing card btw punk, and that doesn't answer whether or not the effect still works if she is no longer in play.

[Zounder]

But As Equals removes counters, so it helps.

It helps, but it doesn't efficiently negate Tsunade, because Tsunade just keeps adding on more and more.

What I mean is, As Equals is not a good counter to Tsunade.

[Zounder]

Dude settle down. I said that I shouldn't have said what I said was a fact. We still wont know how good she is until we find out if wind will be viable to play. I did read the effing card btw punk, and that doesn't answer whether or not the effect still works if she is no longer in play.

I would imagine it doesn't work if she's not in play, because NO ninja effect works if they're not in play...

[Matsu Kuon]

I would imagine it doesn't work if she's not in play, because NO ninja effect works if they're not in play...

Good point but they still have the coins on them. That is the only reason I am wondering. Good point though.

[Matsu Kuon]

It helps, but it doesn't efficiently negate Tsunade, because Tsunade just keeps adding on more and more.

What I mean is, As Equals is not a good counter to Tsunade.

Good counter is APW:D

[shippuden_naruto]

Good point but they still have the coins on them. That is the only reason I am wondering. Good point though.

They probably just sit there as coins with no effect,but if you put her back into play then her effect kicks in again.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

wind has TN, WS/VT, 9th, fan. Thats all it needs to be playable. This tsunade is just icing ontop of the cake.

-Zero

[Zero Master Of Percision]

They probably just sit there as coins with no effect,but if you put her back into play then her effect kicks in again.

I already stated this. Se gives the coins the effect.

-Zero

[Matsu Kuon]

They probably just sit there as coins with no effect,but if you put her back into play then her effect kicks in again.


I am not disagreeing I would just like to know for sure cus that changes the card alot. Alot more cards would hurt Tsunade. Like 8trigram combos of 2 damage excetra excetra.....

[Matsu Kuon]

wind has TN, WS/VT, 9th, fan. Thats all it needs to be playable. This tsunade is just icing ontop of the cake.

-Zero

I am not saying she is a bad card. I am not saying wind is not going to be in the meta. I just think she wont get much play. I could very easily be wrong but based on the stuff I have seen for other elements FIRE LIGHTNING EARTH I just think that wind might have problems in the meta because of real dominant Jutsu's.

[Matsu Kuon]

I already stated this. Se gives the coins the effect.

-Zero


That is great that you said this I am so happy. :\

I wanna know what the official ruling will be though.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

That is great that you said this I am so happy. :\

I wanna know what the official ruling will be though.

The official ruling is that she gives the effects to the coins. there is already a card like this, and its ruled that way. + I just talked to james on aim, and when I thanked him fr not making it a ew coin that gets the effect off sunade rather then itelf, he didnt correct me saying they do get the effct by themselves.

-Zero

[rocklee10]

The official ruling is that she gives the effects to the coins. there is already a card like this, and its ruled that way. + I just talked to james on aim, and when I thanked him fr not making it a ew coin that gets the effect off sunade rather then itelf, he didnt correct me saying they do get the effct by themselves.

-Zero

That kinda makes her broken.

[Matsu Kuon]

The official ruling is that she gives the effects to the coins. there is already a card like this, and its ruled that way. + I just talked to james on aim, and when I thanked him fr not making it a ew coin that gets the effect off sunade rather then itelf, he didnt correct me saying they do get the effct by themselves.

-Zero


Ok. That makes the card much better already in my eyes. I still don't know if it will see much play though. If it does it will be because it is a sr though. JK.

[rocklee10]

Ok. That makes the card much better already in my eyes. I still don't know if it will see much play though. If it does it will be because it is a sr though. JK.

I think it will see alot of play. Considering shes almost as broken as pre-errata Ino.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

That kinda makes her broken.

No.... her effect making the coins hold back ninja is better then the coins doing it on their own. this way,if you cursed fate her, or kill her, the poison doesnt stick (because her effect removes them, and she wouldnt be removing them :\)

Its better this way.

FYI here is the previous card like this: http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/images/cards_s1/n042.jpg

Its ruled the tenketsu coins are meaningless unless neji is o the field to give the effect.

-Zero

[Kanye West]

OMFG TSUNADE IS SOOOO **** BRKEN CAGED BIRD EVERY TURN!
WOW good job america.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

I think it will see alot of play. Considering shes almost as broken as pre-errata Ino.

Nothing is that broken. Ino was ****ing ridiculous. control the game from turn 0? tsunade comes in on turn 6 :\

-Zero

[Matsu Kuon]

I think it will see alot of play. Considering shes almost as broken as pre-errata Ino.

Sorry to disagreel. BUT HOLY &^%$ NO. ino didn't have to be sent out to battle, Ino was a turn 0 Ino to Tsunade is like comparing a hokage to a chunnin. I wont disagree with you on the how much play she will see thing cus we just can't tell right now.

[rocklee10]

No.... her effect making the coins hold back ninja is better then the coins doing it on their own. this way,if you cursed fate her, or kill her, the poison doesnt stick (because her effect removes them, and she wouldnt be removing them :\)

Its better this way.

FYI here is the previous card like this: http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/images/cards_s1/n042.jpg

Its ruled the tenketsu coins are meaningless unless neji is o the field to give the effect.

-Zero

Ohh, I thought you ment the other way around. Thanks for clearing that up. But shes still good. Its not easy to kill a 8/1, and shes Female so she can't be targeted by Sexy.
and not everyone has APW.

[Matsu Kuon]

OMFG TSUNADE IS SOOOO **** BRKEN CAGED BIRD EVERY TURN!
WOW good job america.

Actually all in all I will say that this card is very balanced.

A) She is only in a decent element.
B) She is turn 6.
C) She has to be sent out to use her ability.
D) this is SPARTA!


Good job bandai on a decent card to help even out the meta (no sarcasm)

[Majestic Zatch]

Awesome!! i want this card sooo much! best art compared to Fifth Hokage (why isn't it fifth hokage anymore?)

[Matsu Kuon]

No.... her effect making the coins hold back ninja is better then the coins doing it on their own. this way,if you cursed fate her, or kill her, the poison doesnt stick (because her effect removes them, and she wouldnt be removing them :\)

Its better this way.

FYI here is the previous card like this: http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/images/cards_s1/n042.jpg

Its ruled the tenketsu coins are meaningless unless neji is o the field to give the effect.

-Zero

My bad i misunderstood you too.:confused: With this ruling I am starting to waver on this card. IDK though this is going to be a great set for evening out the meta though. :D

[rocklee10]

My bad i misunderstood you too.:confused: With this ruling I am starting to waver on this card. IDK though this is going to be a great set for evening out the meta though. :D

Lets hope so.

[Matsu Kuon]

Lets hope so.

I have 8 APW's not counting the ones in my deck. So I will have enough to share with you and zero (incase his supplier runs out:DJK). I am sure gato has plenty though.LOL

[rocklee10]

I have 8 APW's not counting the ones in my deck. So I will have enough to share with you and zero (incase his supplier runs out:DJK). I am sure gato has plenty though.LOL

I REALLY!!!!!!! Need 1 of those. I only have 2 APW and desperatly need a 3rd APW.

[Matsu Kuon]

I REALLY!!!!!!! Need 1 of those. I only have 2 APW and desperatly need a 3rd APW.

you need a 3rd 3rd. LOL. Maybe if you are at the next jonin ill get you some.

[Itachi_Kaguya]

This is one card that I've seen that I am REALLY looking forward to. I don't play anymore, but I'll still get packs just for this card and Kimimaro.

[Itachi_Kaguya]

Actually all in all I will say that this card is very balanced.

A) She is only in a decent element.
B) She is turn 6.
C) She has to be sent out to use her ability.
D) this is SPARTA!


Good job bandai on a decent card to help even out the meta (no sarcasm)
Sorry for double post, but, on letter 'C', the effect would go off when attacking and defending, correct? I'm not sure.

[Akatsuki Zetsu]

wow...this game losing more strategy every set. its just play and win.

[reddragondecease]

wow...this game losing more strategy every set. its just play and win.

I don't see how that applies to this card.

[anbuitachi]

Does the new Tsunade's effect apply during the battle phase and immeadietly take out the ninja from battle, or does it apply after the battle phase?

[Knight X]

Does the new Tsunade's effect apply during the battle phase and immeadietly take out the ninja from battle, or does it apply after the battle phase?

When Tsunade puts the coins on the card it was already sent out to battle. Tsunade only stops it from being sent out to battle.

[Itachi's Bunny]

i just can see this card easily keeping all my ninjas from atacking and blocking, its like a DFC, but if they attack then you use her effect, that team can not block. I just really wish this card was not made.

[Kaiten]

i just can see this card easily keeping all my ninjas from atacking and blocking, its like a DFC, but if they attack then you use her effect, that team can not block. I just really wish this card was not made.
Unless I read wrong..you can just reform a new team excluding the ninja that had the drug coins put on it.. but then again, the one with the drug coins put on it was probably the major deciding factor in that team <.<

[10-Tails Navdeep]

I feel as if this card does have great potential but I don't think It'll be a game breaking card... It can make yur oppoenents life a pain but the only real time she'll really **** anybody off is if shes payed againsed like a water deck... *To much joinin only jutsu 0.o needs.... moar... papaa bombz*

[BunnySlayer]

Great Amazing card. Will see play in X/Wind. Not Broken though...

[Card Slinger J]

This Tsunade is pretty good and is something that Wind really needed not just in conjunction with Sexy Gaara but in Earth/Wind as well.

Plus Shika/Temari Platoon + Sakura's Decision + 5 card draw = bonus for Earth/Wind deck's to shine even more...

[BunnySlayer]

Plus Shika/Temari Platoon + Sakura's Decision + 5 card draw = bonus for Earth/Wind deck's to shine even more...

That Combo is definatly not worth it =/

[Jo K.]

Ooh! DO WANT! I think it will replace one of the othger Tsunade's I run. I run Legendary sitting duck, so I'll probably take it out for this one (If I get it)

[Poo Toucher]

ok, here is my take. Tsunade's best asset has been the immidate counter to trigram, vortex, ect. with the big tree effect (notice how competitive decks play none other?) This new one's ability has one big downside, if you take her out of the equation, like say trigram her, not only have you completley wasted your hand cost to play her, you have to do it all over again if you wish to get any effects out of her. I am definatly not saying this is a bad tsunade, let me say that again. THIS IS NOT A BAD TSUNADE. The only thing is that big tree was made and is a perfect answer to the biggest, baddest jutsu in this game. Wind/x needs the big tree to be competitive, so while this is a great version, it is not nearly as usefull as big tree. That said, I may revise my opinon after i have seen this thing in action

[Valuke]

wait does that mean like if you are attacking with her and are blcked by a team of one and you give them the drug coin dont you get to attack right threw sweet and you get to pick

[Valuke]

ok, here is my take. Tsunade's best asset has been the immidate counter to trigram, vortex, ect. with the big tree effect (notice how competitive decks play none other?) This new one's ability has one big downside, if you take her out of the equation, like say trigram her, not only have you completley wasted your hand cost to play her, you have to do it all over again if you wish to get any effects out of her. I am definatly not saying this is a bad tsunade, let me say that again. THIS IS NOT A BAD TSUNADE. The only thing is that big tree was made and is a perfect answer to the biggest, baddest jutsu in this game. Wind/x needs the big tree to be competitive, so while this is a great version, it is not nearly as usefull as big tree. That said, I may revise my opinon after i have seen this thing in action

i agree with what your saying i think though you will be seeing 2 to1 tsunades being in a deck 2 being the big tree and 1 being the new one

[Matsu Kuon]

i agree with what your saying i think though you will be seeing 2 to1 tsunades being in a deck 2 being the big tree and 1 being the new one

I think you will see alot of this one just because she is on PAR with treehugger and she is shiny sr.

[Kankuro puppet master]

you guys a really underestimateing wind as a element. Wind still has the best negation in the game right now and don't be surprised if you see another negation in this set. Wind really just needed a solid great 6 drop. That can devaste. Now every element has one. Some argue lighting dosnt have one, But some say jirayah bringing back jutsus is that ninja. Yes he is great i won't agrue that.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

ok, here is my take. Tsunade's best asset has been the immidate counter to trigram, vortex, ect. with the big tree effect (notice how competitive decks play none other?)
Big tree sees no competitive play. 5th hokage how ever was atleast considered in sexy gaara. Big tree is just a dead card in the meta.

This new one's ability has one big downside, if you take her out of the equation, like say trigram her, not only have you completley wasted your hand cost to play her, you have to do it all over again if you wish to get any effects out of her.
.... Thats much better then relying on them playing cards that are underplayed to get her effect off. your statement could be said about ANY card with a hand cost -_-

The only thing is that big tree was made and is a perfect answer to the biggest, baddest jutsu in this game.
In a format where removal is far too slow compared to damage.. she does nothing :\

Wind/x needs the big tree to be competitive
Absolutely not. Big tree is just a card that has potential to be a good card if teh game gets shifted back to removal jutsus ftw.

so while this is a great version, it is not nearly as usefull as big tree.
again... big tree has had no playability since its release... and with the cards we know from next set, it doesnt seem lik eshes going to see play this set either. However, THIS tsunade can potentialy see ALOT of play.

-Zero

[toushin1101]

wow tis sr is 1 of the best in the us cards ive seen yet but if this 1 is good imagine what the other 1's must do

[rocklee10]

Big tree sees no competitive play. 5th hokage how ever was atleast considered in sexy gaara. Big tree is just a dead card in the meta.


.... Thats much better then relying on them playing cards that are underplayed to get her effect off. your statement could be said about ANY card with a hand cost -_-


In a format where removal is far too slow compared to damage.. she does nothing :\


Absolutely not. Big tree is just a card that has potential to be a good card if teh game gets shifted back to removal jutsus ftw.


again... big tree has had no playability since its release... and with the cards we know from next set, it doesnt seem lik eshes going to see play this set either. However, THIS tsunade can potentialy see ALOT of play.

-Zero

I agree with most of what your saying. But from what we all already know from next set, it looks like the new meta will be Fire/Wind. Meaning Trigram and APW will be back in buisness. And you don't use APW on Tsunade Tree, other wise, you kill 1 of your oppponents ninjas, while your opponent kills 2 of your ninjas.

But unless the meta becomes where the 8-12 jutsus in every deck remove a ninja, I believe this Tsunade is better. I think Shino OO might make a comback. xD

[Akatsuki Zetsu]

I agree with most of what your saying. But from what we all already know from next set, it looks like the new meta will be Fire/Wind. Meaning Trigram and APW will be back in buisness. And you don't use APW on Tsunade Tree, other wise, you kill 1 of your oppponents ninjas, while your opponent kills 2 of your ninjas.

But unless the meta becomes where the 8-12 jutsus in every deck remove a ninja, I believe this Tsunade is better. I think Shino OO might make a comback. xD

its so easy to counter big tree though, with a sacrfice. if you have an injure jonin, or just a useless turn 4 jonin out. chump block then trigram or better yet vortex, you take out their tsunade yea they kill you but they either get 1 or 2 br, or if you put a crappy back ninja then they get none. or another thing, is that tsunade has to be battlng. if you can make a higher tp than them, or if your chakra looks threatening...basically what im saying is is if they dont block with tsunade then you can trigram her with no worries. so thats why i think big tree is no where near as good as this one, as you said.

[rocklee10]

its so easy to counter big tree though, with a sacrfice. if you have an injure jonin, or just a useless turn 4 jonin out. chump block then trigram or better yet vortex, you take out their tsunade yea they kill you but they either get 1 or 2 br, or if you put a crappy back ninja then they get none. or another thing, is that tsunade has to be battlng. if you can make a higher tp than them, or if your chakra looks threatening...basically what im saying is is if they dont block with tsunade then you can trigram her with no worries. so thats why i think big tree is no where near as good as this one, as you said.

Yeah, its fun when you attack and your opponent chumps, then you Trigram their best ninja. lol

Yeah, TAOD Tsunade is by far the best Tsunade. I have she gets a playable jutsu next set. As of right now, the only good jutsu she has is Extrordinary Strength. But their are somany better jutsus then that so why run it?

[randemalex]

ok, here is my take. Tsunade's best asset has been the immidate counter to trigram, vortex, ect. with the big tree effect (notice how competitive decks play none other?) This new one's ability has one big downside, if you take her out of the equation, like say trigram her, not only have you completley wasted your hand cost to play her, you have to do it all over again if you wish to get any effects out of her. I am definatly not saying this is a bad tsunade, let me say that again. THIS IS NOT A BAD TSUNADE. The only thing is that big tree was made and is a perfect answer to the biggest, baddest jutsu in this game. Wind/x needs the big tree to be competitive, so while this is a great version, it is not nearly as usefull as big tree. That said, I may revise my opinon after i have seen this thing in action

Youre forgetting that wind has many negations

[Zounder]

I agree with most of what your saying. But from what we all already know from next set, it looks like the new meta will be Fire/Wind. Meaning Trigram and APW will be back in buisness. And you don't use APW on Tsunade Tree, other wise, you kill 1 of your oppponents ninjas, while your opponent kills 2 of your ninjas.

But unless the meta becomes where the 8-12 jutsus in every deck remove a ninja, I believe this Tsunade is better. I think Shino OO might make a comback. xD

I'll say this again. Just because fre will be big next set doesn't mean trigram will. Decks are still going to be based arounf Gaara early game, which, like the previous meta, will have very minimal jonin action, which in turn leads to minimal users of trigram. If you put in extra jonins like APW/ES in your deck, you're going to get run over by Gaara.

[rocklee10]

I'll say this again. Just because fre will be big next set doesn't mean trigram will. Decks are still going to be based arounf Gaara early game, which, like the previous meta, will have very minimal jonin action, which in turn leads to minimal users of trigram. If you put in extra jonins like APW/ES in your deck, you're going to get run over by Gaara.

Gaara TN dosen't own the meta <.< And APW kills Gaara.

[Zounder]

Gaara TN dosen't own the meta <.< And APW kills Gaara.

Gaara out prioritizes APW on the attack, and yes, Gaara TN does own the meta. Take a look at the vast majority of decks that have done well at Chunins/Jonin.

[Neji]

Gaara TN dosen't own the meta <.< And APW kills Gaara.

At the moment, Gaara TN owns the early-mid game and can even work late game. If he wasn't that good, why would sexy Gaara be tier 1 =/

Also, if you wanna kill your APW just to kill my Gaara, be my guest...I most likely am gonna get another one really soon or already have one in my hand if I'm runing him in 2-3's (which is VERY common with him).

[rocklee10]

Gaara out prioritizes APW on the attack, and yes, Gaara TN does own the meta. Take a look at the vast majority of decks that have done well at Chunins/Jonin.

They all had Gaara. But in Coils-R&R All good decks also ran Sasuke AOC. Because he was a staple. So is Gaara. And since Sexy got reruled, and SA will be erratad, Gaara is just a staple. If he ownd the meta, every deck would be based around him. But alot of good decks run Gaara. Not Sexy Gaara. Just Gaara.

[Zounder]

They all had Gaara. But in Coils-R&R All good decks also ran Sasuke AOC. Because he was a staple. So is Gaara. And since Sexy got reruled, and SA will be erratad, Gaara is just a staple. If he ownd the meta, every deck would be based around him. But alot of good decks run Gaara. Not Sexy Gaara. Just Gaara.

At what point did I say sexy gaara owned the meta?


Good decks run Gaara, as you said. Comparing him to AoC is not fair because Gaara alone completely dominates the entire game when paired up correctly. AoC is a dominant force early game and thats it.

Good decks utilize Gaaras amazingness, which means stacking your deck towards early game, which means no room for many jonins.

[GaiOkashiiNingen]

Gah forget this post.

[Matsu Kuon]

At what point did I say sexy gaara owned the meta?


Good decks run Gaara, as you said. Comparing him to AoC is not fair because Gaara alone completely dominates the entire game when paired up correctly. AoC is a dominant force early game and thats it.

Good decks utilize Gaaras amazingness, which means stacking your deck towards early game, which means no room for many jonins.

Then Cop owned the meta then too by you explanation. He was great early game and great late game just like garra.

[Matsu Kuon]

I'll say this again. Just because fre will be big next set doesn't mean trigram will. Decks are still going to be based arounf Gaara early game, which, like the previous meta, will have very minimal jonin action, which in turn leads to minimal users of trigram. If you put in extra jonins like APW/ES in your deck, you're going to get run over by Gaara.

First of all you dont KNOW crap until we see all the previewed cards. Also If you saw 1st place deck at jonins you would have seen 2 bakis and 2 1st hokages. The reason they were used is cus they were on element. With this next set based on all the fire cards IF fire is in the top meta which it probly will be then you can't ignore cards like ES APW sasuke's dad all of whom can 8trigram. When it comes to fire 8 trigram is just as much as garra is a staple for most decks.

[BunnySlayer]

Then Cop owned the meta then too by you explanation. He was great early game and great late game just like garra.

Cop was not great late game =/

Also COP didn't have anywhere near as powerful an effect as Gaara. We are talking about an effect that can completly wipe out a team of Jonins single handedly if combo'd with the right cards...

[Matsu Kuon]

Cop was not great late game =/

Also COP didn't have anywhere near as powerful an effect as Gaara. We are talking about an effect that can completly wipe out a team of Jonins single handedly if combo'd with the right cards...

What combo would whipe out a team of jonins? :\

[Zero Master Of Percision]

First of all you dont KNOW crap until we see all the previewed cards. Also If you saw 1st place deck at jonins you would have seen 2 bakis and 2 1st hokages. The reason they were used is cus they were on element. With this next set based on all the fire cards IF fire is in the top meta which it probly will be then you can't ignore cards like ES APW sasuke's dad all of whom can 8trigram. When it comes to fire 8 trigram is just as much as garra is a staple for most decks.

There were NO bakis in daves deck. As for trigram, Id rather play faster jutsus.

-Zero

[shikamaru_of_hebi]

due to the next set



the game will be alot more intresting i seriously dont know wat to run

i know for sure i will not be runing anyform of sexy gaara or even have the gaara tn in my deck just becuz i wanna try to succeed without it with have been doing lately too

also


i think im going to do a fire water earth i know it sounds crazy ...

but i think i can pull it off the only missions

will be caged bird aour and maybe toras unless a better draw or even ust a better fire mission is recognized ....

as for jutsu

water style gvj
8trigrams
diguise jutsu
and some of the amazing jutsu that may be in the next set

but here goes the shocker

the nin will be low

like 19 nin and 2 platoons

i do sound crazy i know but im going to try it ...

if i dont succeed it only means im a super phail at life

so chea .... expect the impossible next set ..!

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

First of all you dont KNOW crap until we see all the previewed cards. Also If you saw 1st place deck at jonins you would have seen 2 bakis and 2 1st hokages. The reason they were used is cus they were on element. With this next set based on all the fire cards IF fire is in the top meta which it probly will be then you can't ignore cards like ES APW sasuke's dad all of whom can 8trigram. When it comes to fire 8 trigram is just as much as garra is a staple for most decks.

You are WRONG.

Baki was not played by David Moll.

The First Hokage was only played because for 1) he's on element. 2) He is the Gaara counter as AT THE TIME his window of priority was faster. In a mirror match, if I have access to Gaara and you don't, I win. Understand?

Right now, you could cut the First Hokage since his window no longer beats out Gaara due to the rerule. I would still keep him because he is still amazing when your opponent doesn't have Gaara, but I just thought you should know WHY cards are played.

I do agree with you that we don't know squat til we see the previewd cards but with the last 2 sets when we saw preview cards....what happened?

ER: We saw the Formation trio and knew they'd be awesome and were hoping for cards of equal caliber. We didn't receive and the Formation trio still dominated the game as expected from day 1.

QFP: We saw Reunion and Release of Chakra and knew they would warp the meta game. They did. Release made OTK a serious threat and most people had to build 2/3rds of their sideboard just in case they got a FPS matchup, leaving most defenseless against siding for most other decks. Reunion fueled the entire metagame's speed/draw engines.

The only card to this date that has not delivered when previewed that we thought was "OMG WTF AWESOME!?" is Tsunade Big Tree.

[Matsu Kuon]

There were NO bakis in daves deck. As for trigram, Id rather play faster jutsus.

-Zero

My bad I must have remebered wrong. :o

[visserac88]

The next meta deck is Gaara wind/x. 2-3 Tsunades will be pure power. After killing the early game with Gaara and all the little annoying 0-3 drops, Tsunade will just be the ice on the cake. SA, paper bomabs, draw power missions and any other on type jutsus/missions is going to be killer. In the new set all The uchiha cards will be dead pulls along with all the other cards but the new tai stuff =/ .

[Matsu Kuon]

You are WRONG.

Baki was not played by David Moll.

The First Hokage was only played because for 1) he's on element. 2) He is the Gaara counter as AT THE TIME his window of priority was faster. In a mirror match, if I have access to Gaara and you don't, I win. Understand?

Right now, you could cut the First Hokage since his window no longer beats out Gaara due to the rerule. I would still keep him because he is still amazing when your opponent doesn't have Gaara, but I just thought you should know WHY cards are played.

I do agree with you that we don't know squat til we see the previewd cards but with the last 2 sets when we saw preview cards....what happened?

ER: We saw the Formation trio and knew they'd be awesome and were hoping for cards of equal caliber. We didn't receive and the Formation trio still dominated the game as expected from day 1.

QFP: We saw Reunion and Release of Chakra and knew they would warp the meta game. They did. Release made OTK a serious threat and most people had to build 2/3rds of their sideboard just in case they got a FPS matchup, leaving most defenseless against siding for most other decks. Reunion fueled the entire metagame's speed/draw engines.

The only card to this date that has not delivered when previewed that we thought was "OMG WTF AWESOME!?" is Tsunade Big Tree.


A) I stand corrected bout davids deck. Thought he did my bad.
B) What is the reruling on the first?
C) OMG WTF 1st and 2nd Hokage are broken (comments made about the starter ones before they came out).
D) Good point though it is pretty easy to spot a good card.
E) I was only making the point earlier that jonins and 8trigrams will be played in all the fire decks (pending on the rest of the cards that come out.).

[Matsu Kuon]

There were NO bakis in daves deck. As for trigram, Id rather play faster jutsus.

-Zero

We would all rathe play faster jutsu like paper bomb but with fire back in the meta it will be hard not to use 8tri. Seriously if your running fire your not gonna run 8tri? :\

[visserac88]

We would all rathe play faster jutsu like paper bomb but with fire back in the meta it will be hard not to use 8tri. Seriously if your running fire your not gonna run 8tri? :\

With the Gaara Tsunade deck your going to be running only Tsunade's as a high ninja and maybe BIg-J. Were not telling you not to play 8Tri but if you want to throw in the high fire ninjas it's cool. Just know the APW/Kakashi/Itachi could be ninjas playaing against your opponents Gaara early game while your getting the crap kicked out of you. Gaara decks kill your opponents early game and controls the mid-late game. If you add late curve your cutting your early curve and early is what your going to need against Gaara. Paper bomb/SCJ/wind negation/maybe sexy/SA/draw power is easy to take 15+ spots...you might not even have enough room to add 8Tri.

[visserac88]

scratch the sexy, 9th match would take the spots. Your not gonna want a 3 cost justsu in a deck thats running almost 4 diffrent types.

[BunnySlayer]

What combo would whipe out a team of jonins? :\

Cho + Shika USF + Gaara + Sexy

Seriously do you even know how to play Naruto?

We would all rathe play faster jutsu like paper bomb but with fire back in the meta it will be hard not to use 8tri. Seriously if your running fire your not gonna run 8tri? :\

Why Play Late game jutsu(therefor forcing you to run late game ninja) When you can just run pure aggro and PWN face early game? =/

[Nara_Shika_87]

They all had Gaara. But in Coils-R&R All good decks also ran Sasuke AOC. Because he was a staple. So is Gaara. And since Sexy got reruled, and SA will be erratad, Gaara is just a staple. If he ownd the meta, every deck would be based around him. But alot of good decks run Gaara. Not Sexy Gaara. Just Gaara.

Nothing is wrong with Suicidal Action. The cards bound to get errated are the ones that have a dangerous interaction with it. For example:

Naruto (OLA): VALID: When this ninja is sent out to attack and recieves any damage due to the showdown or your opponent's effects, you may give 1 damage to any ninja battling against this ninja.

That also cuts out cheapness like wind blading your own Naruto to do damage (Which is dumb but i have seen) in order to give damage. Who else would cause a problem? Gaara? Choji? Not nearly as much. The jutsu is pretty balanced, actually, in the sense that it has to be a leaf ninja to play it.

[Nara_Shika_87]

Cho + Shika USF + Gaara + Sexy

Seriously do you even know how to play Naruto?



Why Play Late game jutsu(therefor forcing you to run late game ninja) When you can just run pure aggro and PWN face early game? =/

You can still pwn in the face, as you so aptly put it, early game using trigrams. Ever heard of request for taking office? You don't need a jonin out to play it, when you can make gaara a satoosa

[Matsu Kuon]

With the Gaara Tsunade deck your going to be running only Tsunade's as a high ninja and maybe BIg-J. Were not telling you not to play 8Tri but if you want to throw in the high fire ninjas it's cool. Just know the APW/Kakashi/Itachi could be ninjas playaing against your opponents Gaara early game while your getting the crap kicked out of you. Gaara decks kill your opponents early game and controls the mid-late game. If you add late curve your cutting your early curve and early is what your going to need against Gaara. Paper bomb/SCJ/wind negation/maybe sexy/SA/draw power is easy to take 15+ spots...you might not even have enough room to add 8Tri.

I respect alot of the points you made. First of all though in order to build the deck your talking about is a little retarded (not saying you are) Because no one is going to be running Earth/lightning/wind/Fire (all of these elements have hand costs in the sort of deck you described). Second of all I think that this is a very good Tsunade but just not as good as APW and ES. Also The same early game you are talking about will be used in any good fire deck Garra shika choji. So the early game is not going to get killed if any thing it will rock more with fire (freedori/missingpet/Sa). All I am saying is the early game with a fire deck will be on par with all the other early game and then when it comes late game time you got 8tri ES APW to finish the deal.


How quickly people have forgotten how sweet fire IS.

[Matsu Kuon]

Cho + Shika USF + Gaara + Sexy

Seriously do you even know how to play Naruto?



Why Play Late game jutsu(therefor forcing you to run late game ninja) When you can just run pure aggro and PWN face early game? =/

What game are you playing? Sexy is practically gone due to the recent ruling. Every deck has to run that combo anywat so when late game DOES roll around who is going to have the best? Wind? No (Tsunade is good but doesnt stand up to APW ES TRIGRAM) Lightning? No Earth? No Water? IDK yet we will have to see what they get. Fire Hell yes! Also no I have no idea how to play naruto. I have only T4 in every big event I have been in.:eek:

[pillowcaseking]

You can still pwn in the face, as you so aptly put it, early game using trigrams. Ever heard of request for taking office? You don't need a jonin out to play it, when you can make gaara a satoosa
It takes up space and comes in on turn 4

[visserac88]

I respect alot of the points you made. First of all though in order to build the deck your talking about is a little retarded (not saying you are) Because no one is going to be running Earth/lightning/wind/Fire (all of these elements have hand costs in the sort of deck you described). Second of all I think that this is a very good Tsunade but just not as good as APW and ES. Also The same early game you are talking about will be used in any good fire deck Garra shika choji. So the early game is not going to get killed if any thing it will rock more with fire (freedori/missingpet/Sa). All I am saying is the early game with a fire deck will be on par with all the other early game and then when it comes late game time you got 8tri ES APW to finish the deal.


How quickly people have forgotten how sweet fire IS.

SA only requires one fire....Nawaki/Sasuke/SA is enough fof the fire side. Earth will only be shika/Choji. The rest of the deck would split lightning and wind. It would still be consistent seeing that the only ninja with hand cost would be Tsunade and SA only requires one fire that would be easy with 9th match/Reunion/SCJ shorting the deck. It's possible if built right =/

[Matsu Kuon]

SA only requires one fire....Nawaki/Sasuke/SA is enough fof the fire side. Earth will only be shika/Choji. The rest of the deck would split lightning and wind. It would still be consistent seeing that the only ninja with hand cost would be Tsunade and SA only requires one fire that would be easy with 9th match/Reunion/SCJ shorting the deck. It's possible if built right =/

I guess. I wont knock it until I try it ok.:D It just seems to inconsistent to me.

[visserac88]

I guess. I wont knock it until I try it ok.:D It just seems to inconsistent to me.

Your garunteed a turn zero, one, and two ninja. Nawaki and Reunion is enough draw power to make any deck consistent. This is pointless right now =/ We had not seen the whole set and I'm trying to tell you the deck I made with the cards we know right now is going to be the next meta deck.

Well it is consistent enough to kill your opponents early game and continue to the end.....I lost train of thought now =/

[visserac88]

What game are you playing? Sexy is practically gone due to the recent ruling. Every deck has to run that combo anywat so when late game DOES roll around who is going to have the best? Wind? No (Tsunade is good but doesnt stand up to APW ES TRIGRAM) Lightning? No Earth? No Water? IDK yet we will have to see what they get. Fire Hell yes! Also no I have no idea how to play naruto. I have only T4 in every big event I have been in.:eek:

If fire is that great....then why is sexy Gaara played over them right now? I usually don't attack like this, not trying to.

[Matsu Kuon]

Your garunteed a turn zero, one, and two ninja. Nawaki and Reunion is enough draw power to make any deck consistent. This is pointless right now =/ We had not seen the whole set and I'm trying to tell you the deck I made with the cards we know right now is going to be the next meta deck.

Well it is consistent enough to kill your opponents early game and continue to the end.....I lost train of thought now =/


NP Like I said Ill give it a try. Ill play any deck that wins and that is my way of the ninja.

[Matsu Kuon]

If fire is that great....then why is sexy Gaara played over them right now? I usually don't attack like this, not trying to.


I know you are not flaming and I hope you dont think I am. Yes sexy gaara WAS very popular until the ruling about sexy now sexy is only run 1-2 if at all. Also With sa I think it will be close to imposiable not to play fire. We will see though. We dont know what the rest of the cards are so we cant make any judgements yet.:D

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

What game are you playing? Sexy is practically gone due to the recent ruling. Every deck has to run that combo anywat so when late game DOES roll around who is going to have the best? Wind? No (Tsunade is good but doesnt stand up to APW ES TRIGRAM) Lightning? No Earth? No Water? IDK yet we will have to see what they get. Fire Hell yes! Also no I have no idea how to play naruto. I have only T4 in every big event I have been in.:eek:

LULZ'd. I can't stop laughing.

My Team: Gaara + Shika + Cho is a 6~8 power team.

Your team: Jiraiya + Kakashi ES + Itachi Relentless Attacks. (13 power)

Using priority I use Choji to kill injure Jiraiya then before we enter exchange of jutsu I throw Choji and kill Jiraiya. Now it's 6~7 vs. 6.

Now I play Shadow Clone Jutsu ER and pay 5 to OV you. You play 8 Trigram. I gigantic fan trigram. I paid 3 chakra and lost a genin. You lost a Sanin, injured 2 Jonin, and wasted 2 chakra. You're using up 2 chakra for every 1 Gigantic fan I have. Pre-errata Reunion, odds are your opponent is holding 2 fans or a fan + a sexy. Outside of the possibility of countering your second Trigram, where do I need Sexy to have a team of 3 genins mop the floor with 3 Jonin+ ranks? Sexy didn't make the deck. It just poured salt in the wound. the real MVPs where Choji, Gaara, and the ridiculous ability to nail Gaara every turn and keep reviving him via. 9th match. Throw in Paper bomb and pumps for a healthy dose of a headache, and Genins are all you need.

And if you're going to go around throwing the "I've T4'd at every event I've ever been to" to sound high and mighty, then I'll play dirty as well. I would've loved to have played you at the NY Jonin. I only was snubbed out and got 9th due to bad tiebreakers and someone who stalled me illegally. (Otherwise I would've went undefeated in Swiss) And not to take a crack at his playing skill but I have yet to lose to Fuuma which if I'm not mistaken is who you lost to in the T4. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here.

I feel like I'm repeating Zounder and I'm even getting tired of saying this:

Gaara + Temari VT + OLA. I attack with that team. You block with a team of 3 Jonins. I have Naruto OLA use Suicidal Action. He instantly kills any ninja of my choice on your team if you don't negate the jutsu OR I give 2 damage to any ninja of my choice in your team. Disguise Jutsu means you still take 1 damage so your choices are Wind Scythe and pray I don't have 2 Chakra, High Speed Taijutsu, or Sharingan Eye...2 of those are specific and I doubt you'll have 1 ready on turn 2 outside of S. Eye w/ Tora + Freedori. Now you discard 1 to 2 cards depending how I divided up the damage cause of Temari. Then I throw Naruto at you with Gaara's effect dealing another 1 damage to you and making you discard 3 cards from your hand. I just gave 1 damage to every ninja you're battling against... that's almost as good as Trigram and it only cost me a Fire and 1...with 3 genin.

The fact that I had the opportunity at one point to use Suicidal Action and instantly kill any ninja with a GENIN proves it is better than Trigram. 2 Damage > Remove ninja. It accomplishes the same thing but is worded in such a way that it gets around cards like Tsunade Big Tree. Go ahead. Play Trigram. I'll be play a much better combo that accomplishes the same results on turn 2 and can't ge Gigantic fan'd.

[shikamaru/tsunade combo]

yeah that is a good combo but i dont like a typical deck i want to make a new deck but i am stuck i am going back to mental and plan to use this tsunade im not saying she is the best but hey it could help

[Zounder]

Then Cop owned the meta then too by you explanation. He was great early game and great late game just like garra.

COP is terrible late game.

First of all you dont KNOW crap until we see all the previewed cards. Also If you saw 1st place deck at jonins you would have seen 2 bakis and 2 1st hokages. The reason they were used is cus they were on element.

I have absolutely no idea what you're getting at here, especially based on what you quoted. I agree with this, and don't see how it relates to anything.

With this next set based on all the fire cards IF fire is in the top meta which it probly will be then you can't ignore cards like ES APW sasuke's dad all of whom can 8trigram. When it comes to fire 8 trigram is just as much as garra is a staple for most decks.

I'll repeat again, if you stack your deck late game, it will get romped by decks who stack early game, as long as the early game is good. This is a fact for any meta, which is why you don't -see- late game decks anymore. It worked in the days of Curse because there weren't enough impact early game cards. If enough late game impact cards are released, then sure, Im right with you, but as of now, gaara is still a dominant force that beats our APW/ES/Jonins.

What game are you playing? Sexy is practically gone due to the recent ruling. Every deck has to run that combo anywat so when late game DOES roll around who is going to have the best? Wind? No (Tsunade is good but doesnt stand up to APW ES TRIGRAM) Lightning? No Earth? No Water? IDK yet we will have to see what they get. Fire Hell yes! Also no I have no idea how to play naruto. I have only T4 in every big event I have been in.

Even without Sexy, My team of Gaara + Shika + Cho (Turn 0, 1, 2, one has a tutor) vs. your APW/ES/big ninja (at least two hand costs, turn 4+), My team will win. Why? I destroy one ninja right off the bat, and even if you do hit a trigram, my damage has been done. There's also a chance I have a fan to negate. Not to mention, ym team has been out as early as turn two, wrecking your entire field. Even if by some chance you win this battle, I have major field presence, or it's gotten to the point in the game where you have to split your teams.

Trigram is terrible, and barring some major late game impact card, will be terrible next set.

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

Trigram is terrible, and barring some major late game impact card, will be terrible next set.

Agreed. The only thing that will save Trigram is if the release a card that allows it to be played without paying its Jutsu cost or something. Or we just get like 5 Stellar Jonins all of ES or better caliber.

[visserac88]

LULZ'd. I can't stop laughing.

My Team: Gaara + Shika + Cho is a 6~8 power team.

Your team: Jiraiya + Kakashi ES + Itachi Relentless Attacks. (13 power)

Using priority I use Choji to kill injure Jiraiya then before we enter exchange of jutsu I throw Choji and kill Jiraiya. Now it's 6~7 vs. 6.

Now I play Shadow Clone Jutsu ER and pay 5 to OV you. You play 8 Trigram. I gigantic fan trigram. I paid 3 chakra and lost a genin. You lost a Sanin, injured 2 Jonin, and wasted 2 chakra. You're using up 2 chakra for every 1 Gigantic fan I have. Pre-errata Reunion, odds are your opponent is holding 2 fans or a fan + a sexy. Outside of the possibility of countering your second Trigram, where do I need Sexy to have a team of 3 genins mop the floor with 3 Jonin+ ranks? Sexy didn't make the deck. It just poured salt in the wound. the real MVPs where Choji, Gaara, and the ridiculous ability to nail Gaara every turn and keep reviving him via. 9th match. Throw in Paper bomb and pumps for a healthy dose of a headache, and Genins are all you need.

And if you're going to go around throwing the "I've T4'd at every event I've ever been to" to sound high and mighty, then I'll play dirty as well. I would've loved to have played you at the NY Jonin. I only was snubbed out and got 9th due to bad tiebreakers and someone who stalled me illegally. (Otherwise I would've went undefeated in Swiss) And not to take a crack at his playing skill but I have yet to lose to Fuuma which if I'm not mistaken is who you lost to in the T4. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here.

I feel like I'm repeating Zounder and I'm even getting tired of saying this:

Gaara + Temari VT + OLA. I attack with that team. You block with a team of 3 Jonins. I have Naruto OLA use Suicidal Action. He instantly kills any ninja of my choice on your team if you don't negate the jutsu OR I give 2 damage to any ninja of my choice in your team. Disguise Jutsu means you still take 1 damage so your choices are Wind Scythe and pray I don't have 2 Chakra, High Speed Taijutsu, or Sharingan Eye...2 of those are specific and I doubt you'll have 1 ready on turn 2 outside of S. Eye w/ Tora + Freedori. Now you discard 1 to 2 cards depending how I divided up the damage cause of Temari. Then I throw Naruto at you with Gaara's effect dealing another 1 damage to you and making you discard 3 cards from your hand. I just gave 1 damage to every ninja you're battling against... that's almost as good as Trigram and it only cost me a Fire and 1...with 3 genin.

The fact that I had the opportunity at one point to use Suicidal Action and instantly kill any ninja with a GENIN proves it is better than Trigram. 2 Damage > Remove ninja. It accomplishes the same thing but is worded in such a way that it gets around cards like Tsunade Big Tree. Go ahead. Play Trigram. I'll be play a much better combo that accomplishes the same results on turn 2 and can't ge Gigantic fan'd.

=/ I really don't think you needed to say all of that, I'm pretty sure you could get your point across cheaper.

[visserac88]

Trigram is terrible, and barring some major late game impact card, will be terrible next set.

8Trig isn’t a terrible card, it's the best jutsu out but the requirements are to high and slow for the current meta. Fire dominates by turn 6+ while Gaara dose by turn 2+....What’s faster?

[Zounder]

8Trig isn’t a terrible card, it's the best jutsu out but the requirements are to high and slow for the current meta. Fire dominates by turn 6+ while Gaara dose by turn 2+....What’s faster?

Gaara. Which is why Trigram is terrible.

[yugiohnarutotcgfreak]

i still kinda like QFP tsunade...althru this one is pertty annoying too :P
yea and,tsuande+cage bird=TOTAL CONTRAL

same here i liked qfp

[visserac88]

Gaara. Which is why Trigram is terrible.

but it's not a terrible card =/

more like...unplayable....

[Zounder]

but it's not a terrible card =/

more like...unplayable....

unplayable = terrible, does it not?

If a card is unplayable, then it's so bad that it cannot even be considered to be run. Therefore, terrible.

[visserac88]

unplayable = terrible, does it not?

If a card is unplayable, then it's so bad that it cannot even be considered to be run. Therefore, terrible.

You would be lieing if you thought this current argument isnt annoying -.-

it's unplayable...for now.

[Zounder]

You would be lieing if you thought this current argument isnt annoying -.-

it's unplayable...for now.

It is annoying, but you were the one that had to pick apart the word "terrible" in the first place =P.

[rocklee10]

If Gaara is as good as you people say he is, then he needs errata. Why? He is nolonger in print. So for those of us that don't have him, we can't win.

You smart enough to see how that works?

Now watch my next trick, I will already post what your goiing to say.

Gaara dosn't need errata, even though I just said how if you don't have him, you can't win, he dosn't need errata. And I'm saying this just because I wan't to beat the heck out of all the good players that don't have him. <.<

How am I going to win now? I have none. And the only people that have him, don't wan't to trade him.

And no I don't care if you/Zero/Tsu/Other people start flaming me. So please, give me a good reason why Gaara dosn't need errata. If Gaara dosn't need errata, then their must be a good way around him. But you keep saying their is no way around him. Well you didn't say that, but you did say he owns the meta, and that every good deck needs him.

You didn't say you couldn't win without him exactly, but you did say he was the best, and how hes so good, he destroyed one of the best Jutsus since PTH.

[Jin_Hatake]

Gaara + Temari VT + OLA. I attack with that team. You block with a team of 3 Jonins. I have Naruto OLA use Suicidal Action. He instantly kills any ninja of my choice on your team if you don't negate the jutsu OR I give 2 damage to any ninja of my choice in your team. Disguise Jutsu means you still take 1 damage so your choices are Wind Scythe and pray I don't have 2 Chakra, High Speed Taijutsu, or Sharingan Eye...2 of those are specific and I doubt you'll have 1 ready on turn 2 outside of S. Eye w/ Tora + Freedori. Now you discard 1 to 2 cards depending how I divided up the damage cause of Temari. Then I throw Naruto at you with Gaara's effect dealing another 1 damage to you and making you discard 3 cards from your hand. I just gave 1 damage to every ninja you're battling against... that's almost as good as Trigram and it only cost me a Fire and 1...with 3 genin.

The fact that I had the opportunity at one point to use Suicidal Action and instantly kill any ninja with a GENIN proves it is better than Trigram. 2 Damage > Remove ninja. It accomplishes the same thing but is worded in such a way that it gets around cards like Tsunade Big Tree. Go ahead. Play Trigram. I'll be play a much better combo that accomplishes the same results on turn 2 and can't ge Gigantic fan'd.

tushea. . .you simply used a play scenario. seriously, we haven't even seen the entire set when it comes to the US cards. you send out ola/vt/tn and i pass? which allows you to use suicidal action? then i trigram in response?

please don't put up scenarios. if anything how don't you know I have a toothpick in hand. lmao.

[Zounder]

If Gaara is as good as you people say he is, then he needs errata. Why? He is nolonger in print. So for those of us that don't have him, we can't win.

You smart enough to see how that works?

Now watch my next trick, I will already post what your goiing to say.

Gaara dosn't need errata, even though I just said how if you don't have him, you can't win, he dosn't need errata. And I'm saying this just because I wan't to beat the heck out of all the good players that don't have him. <.<

How am I going to win now? I have none. And the only people that have him, don't wan't to trade him.

And no I don't care if you/Zero/Tsu/Other people start flaming me. So please, give me a good reason why Gaara dosn't need errata. If Gaara dosn't need errata, then their must be a good way around him. But you keep saying their is no way around him. Well you didn't say that, but you did say he owns the meta, and that every good deck needs him.

You didn't say you couldn't win without him exactly, but you did say he was the best, and how hes so good, he destroyed one of the best Jutsus since PTH.

Um, wow. Your prediction of what I was going to say next was waaaaaay off.

There is definitely something wrong with Gaara. I don't necessarily think he needs an errata, but I think there needs to be new cards that can deal with him, perhaps a -good- ninja that is not effected by ninja effects. Something like that. I wouldn't be against an errata either.

So yeah, you're basically correct here. Except with your prediction.

[XIII]

I see DFC geting slowed down by this card but tis just an opinion

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

tushea. . .you simply used a play scenario. seriously, we haven't even seen the entire set when it comes to the US cards. you send out ola/vt/tn and i pass? which allows you to use suicidal action? then i trigram in response?

please don't put up scenarios. if anything how don't you know I have a toothpick in hand. lmao.

A smart player won't play a jutsu without having another in hand.

A smart player also won't rush recklessly with Gaara into a team s/he will obviously get crit'd/OV by unless s/he has the previously mentioned second jutsu.

[Matsu Kuon]

LULZ'd. I can't stop laughing.

My Team: Gaara + Shika + Cho is a 6~8 power team.

Your team: Jiraiya + Kakashi ES + Itachi Relentless Attacks. (13 power)

Using priority I use Choji to kill injure Jiraiya then before we enter exchange of jutsu I throw Choji and kill Jiraiya. Now it's 6~7 vs. 6.

Now I play Shadow Clone Jutsu ER and pay 5 to OV you. You play 8 Trigram. I gigantic fan trigram. I paid 3 chakra and lost a genin. You lost a Sanin, injured 2 Jonin, and wasted 2 chakra. You're using up 2 chakra for every 1 Gigantic fan I have. Pre-errata Reunion, odds are your opponent is holding 2 fans or a fan + a sexy. Outside of the possibility of countering your second Trigram, where do I need Sexy to have a team of 3 genins mop the floor with 3 Jonin+ ranks? Sexy didn't make the deck. It just poured salt in the wound. the real MVPs where Choji, Gaara, and the ridiculous ability to nail Gaara every turn and keep reviving him via. 9th match. Throw in Paper bomb and pumps for a healthy dose of a headache, and Genins are all you need.

And if you're going to go around throwing the "I've T4'd at every event I've ever been to" to sound high and mighty, then I'll play dirty as well. I would've loved to have played you at the NY Jonin. I only was snubbed out and got 9th due to bad tiebreakers and someone who stalled me illegally. (Otherwise I would've went undefeated in Swiss) And not to take a crack at his playing skill but I have yet to lose to Fuuma which if I'm not mistaken is who you lost to in the T4. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here.

I feel like I'm repeating Zounder and I'm even getting tired of saying this:

Gaara + Temari VT + OLA. I attack with that team. You block with a team of 3 Jonins. I have Naruto OLA use Suicidal Action. He instantly kills any ninja of my choice on your team if you don't negate the jutsu OR I give 2 damage to any ninja of my choice in your team. Disguise Jutsu means you still take 1 damage so your choices are Wind Scythe and pray I don't have 2 Chakra, High Speed Taijutsu, or Sharingan Eye...2 of those are specific and I doubt you'll have 1 ready on turn 2 outside of S. Eye w/ Tora + Freedori. Now you discard 1 to 2 cards depending how I divided up the damage cause of Temari. Then I throw Naruto at you with Gaara's effect dealing another 1 damage to you and making you discard 3 cards from your hand. I just gave 1 damage to every ninja you're battling against... that's almost as good as Trigram and it only cost me a Fire and 1...with 3 genin.

The fact that I had the opportunity at one point to use Suicidal Action and instantly kill any ninja with a GENIN proves it is better than Trigram. 2 Damage > Remove ninja. It accomplishes the same thing but is worded in such a way that it gets around cards like Tsunade Big Tree. Go ahead. Play Trigram. I'll be play a much better combo that accomplishes the same results on turn 2 and can't ge Gigantic fan'd.


Wow you are acting like a 2 year old. Cry me a river Justin just because Britney dumped you so you had a Crappy tiebreaker there is no need to throw a fit. I said that I have T4 every big tournement in defense (Some punk said I dont know what Im talking about, which wouldn't coincide with my playing record) not because I am bragging. 2nd of all when the hell did I say Trigram was better than SA and naruto oh wait I didnt you just decided to hear what you wanted to hear and flame somebody cus its online, which is not very smart considering that Ill see you at some point in time if you are planning on going to go to more big tournements (I am not threatning you) Lets just see how big you act then or if you are just another punk trying to sound cool online. Secondly Who the hell said that I am staking my deck late game. Of course I am going to run garra shika cho too I never said I wouldnt. Aslo why the heck is Itachi in this so called team of yours. This has already been dicussed and that is APW's spot which puts a whole different spin on your little sceniro. Its convient the team you choose to go againt shika garra cho combo isnt it. This is what my late game team would look like if and when I run fire next set (pending on what cards come out) es apw sr1st. Now play your little sceniro out againt a team like that that is attacking. Actually dont because it is stuipd and retarded to do what if's. If you dont want to run es apw 8tri that is fine but when I hold of your early game until turn 5 (because I have the same early game cards as you) and then rock your world late game cus you dont have crap, don't go making a sequel to your first hit (cry me a river) Justin. Also I love how consistent your little deck ideas are they are perfect combos in every way except they all have different hand costs tard!

sharingan eye 1 fire
SA 1fire
scj 2 lightning
paperbomb 1lightning
tsunade 1 wind
6 early game earth ninja
fan 1 wind.

That will work GREAT! You might even T8 at the next jonin. Now I know you are a little slow so Ill explain this to you. I am being sarcastic.

Also are you trying to say that you are better than FummaNk? Cus he came in second and you didn't even T8 (regardless of how unlucky you were):( I feel for you. NOT. :\

All I was saying before you jumped in here to act like a total jerk was that with earth's sweet early game and fire's dominant late game and Garra and Naruto being the only cards that would HAVE to be of element I think that fire/earth has a better shot than wind anything, but like I have said many times before WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE THE REST OF THE CARDS!!!

[Matsu Kuon]

A smart player won't play a jutsu without having another in hand.

A smart player also won't rush recklessly with Gaara into a team s/he will obviously get crit'd/OV by unless s/he has the previously mentioned second jutsu.

A smart player wouldn't do what if's to prove a point with cards from a set that hasn't even come out yet!

[Matsu Kuon]

COP is terrible late game.



I have absolutely no idea what you're getting at here, especially based on what you quoted. I agree with this, and don't see how it relates to anything.



I'll repeat again, if you stack your deck late game, it will get romped by decks who stack early game, as long as the early game is good. This is a fact for any meta, which is why you don't -see- late game decks anymore. It worked in the days of Curse because there weren't enough impact early game cards. If enough late game impact cards are released, then sure, Im right with you, but as of now, gaara is still a dominant force that beats our APW/ES/Jonins.



Even without Sexy, My team of Gaara + Shika + Cho (Turn 0, 1, 2, one has a tutor) vs. your APW/ES/big ninja (at least two hand costs, turn 4+), My team will win. Why? I destroy one ninja right off the bat, and even if you do hit a trigram, my damage has been done. There's also a chance I have a fan to negate. Not to mention, ym team has been out as early as turn two, wrecking your entire field. Even if by some chance you win this battle, I have major field presence, or it's gotten to the point in the game where you have to split your teams.

Trigram is terrible, and barring some major late game impact card, will be terrible next set.

What the heck is amatter with you and tskyomi? I AM RUNNING THE SAME EARLY GAME AS YOU. I AM NOT STACKING THE DECK TOWARDS LATE GAME. I am just freaking saying that with two mirror early games it will be a close match until late game comes around AND THEN WHO HAS THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF ALL THE ELEMENTS? FIRE!

[Zounder]

A smart player wouldn't do what if's to prove a point with cards from a set that hasn't even come out yet!

You know, you keep using the argument "We haven't seen all the cards yet" which is true, but you could turn that right back around by saying that your argument fails for the same reason. So please stop saying that. We all know nothing is set in stone. You don't have to keep reminding us, and it doesn't help your argument at all.

I'll let Tsu respond to everything else you said.

By the way, Tsu isn't flaming you at all, you're the one doing all the flaming. In fact I think I'll flag your post.

[Zounder]

What the heck is amatter with you and tskyomi? I AM RUNNING THE SAME EARLY GAME AS YOU. I AM NOT STACKING THE DECK TOWARDS LATE GAME.

If you're running enough Jonins to use Trigram, then yes, you are. If you and I are running similar decks, but I have 4 Jonin and you have 6-8, I have more room for this meta's early game madess and I will have the advantage. I will be faster.

I am just freaking saying that with two mirror early games it will be a close match until late game comes around AND THEN WHO HAS THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF ALL THE ELEMENTS? FIRE!

Incorrect. In the mirror, I get advantage early game and your little trigrams can't help you late game.

And I would say Water has the best late game at this point, if you wanted to get technical. Zabs, SR Second, Vortex, while not playable in this meta because water is slow, but you want best late game, there it is.

Heck, DFC + First is better late game than Fire.

But that argument is moot. Early game still dominates.

[rocklee10]

Um, wow. Your prediction of what I was going to say next was waaaaaay off.

There is definitely something wrong with Gaara. I don't necessarily think he needs an errata, but I think there needs to be new cards that can deal with him, perhaps a -good- ninja that is not effected by ninja effects. Something like that. I wouldn't be against an errata either.

So yeah, you're basically correct here. Except with your prediction.

Well then you agree with me. Ok.

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

Wow you are acting like a 2 year old. Cry me a river Justin just because Britney dumped you so you had a Crappy tiebreaker there is no need to throw a fit. I said that I have T4 every big tournement in defense (Some punk said I dont know what Im talking about, which wouldn't coincide with my playing record) not because I am bragging. 2nd of all when the hell did I say Trigram was better than SA and naruto oh wait I didnt you just decided to hear what you wanted to hear and flame somebody cus its online, which is not very smart considering that Ill see you at some point in time if you are planning on going to go to more big tournements (I am not threatning you) Lets just see how big you act then or if you are just another punk trying to sound cool online. Secondly Who the hell said that I am staking my deck late game. Of course I am going to run garra shika cho too I never said I wouldnt. Aslo why the heck is Itachi in this so called team of yours. This has already been dicussed and that is APW's spot which puts a whole different spin on your little sceniro. Its convient the team you choose to go againt shika garra cho combo isnt it. This is what my late game team would look like if and when I run fire next set (pending on what cards come out) es apw sr1st. Now play your little sceniro out againt a team like that that is attacking. Actually dont because it is stuipd and retarded to do what if's. If you dont want to run es apw 8tri that is fine but when I hold of your early game until turn 5 (because I have the same early game cards as you) and then rock your world late game cus you dont have crap, don't go making a sequel to your first hit (cry me a river) Justin. Also I love how consistent your little deck ideas are they are perfect combos in every way except they all have different hand costs tard!

sharingan eye 1 fire
SA 1fire
scj 2 lightning
paperbomb 1lightning
tsunade 1 wind
6 early game earth ninja
fan 1 wind.

That will work GREAT! You might even T8 at the next jonin. Now I know you are a little slow so Ill explain this to you. I am being sarcastic.

Also are you trying to say that you are better than FummaNk? Cus he came in second and you didn't even T8 (regardless of how unlucky you were):( I feel for you. NOT. :\

All I was saying before you jumped in here to act like a total jerk was that with earth's sweet early game and fire's dominant late game and Garra and Naruto being the only cards that would HAVE to be of element I think that fire/earth has a better shot than wind anything, but like I have said many times before WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE THE REST OF THE CARDS!!!

All I see is a wall of text, sorry.

"We have to wait and see the rest of the cards" is all I keep seeing you spout as Zounder said. No one is going to argue with you or what on that....

In my defense about elements, every deck splashes those earth ninja so you can't use that against me.

Decks run Sakura and Gaara as well as Ninth Match, which is both Wind and Lightning at the same time. That's roughly like 8 or 9 wind. For a card that costs ONE wind, roughly 1 in every 4 cards in the deck is wind, with a third of that is still lightning...so you're basically playing only about 12 splashes (6 wind, 6 earth) and then you play an even 14/14 split. That's still pretty consistent in my book. I've never had a problem being able to play the cards considering how fast pre-errata reunion builds chakra. So basically for every 4 chakra I have should be (2 Fire or Lightning, 1 Fire or Lightning, 1 Wind or Earth).

As for what if scenarios, in a meta game like QFPs, What ifs is all you can go off of. Everyone's deck was almost identical at the Jonin, I'm sure yours was no different. I freaked a guy out in round 4 cause I was able to predict every card he played before he played it simply based on guessing. It's not rocket science. So hypothetical scenarios is all you can go off at high level play since the game is decided by lucks and whoever makes the smallest amount of misplays.

My decks will play late game also, FYI. But to have the competent early game I'm talking about, you are running less than 5 drops that are 5 or 6... so odds are your deck is running 5 Jonins at the max...that's not worth justifying 3 Jutsu slots when I could just replace them with stuff that would stop trigram dead cold and aide my early game.

Let me tell you something... I've been playing games competitively probably a lot longer than you... roughly 6 years now. I base my findings based on statistics (tiers/proven facts) as well as the "X Factor" (that a random person can beat a proven top player regardless of what tier their deck/character is. Example: Zounder was relatively unknown til he took on Joe's Freedori, a top tier deck, vs. fire/earth the second tier deck at the time, and almost won).

I'm not just saying things for no reason. The hypothetical scenarios are just to show you why things are good. Based on the turn at which the combo can come out and the mathematical frequency at which it can be pulled off (I'll actually calculate it and SHOW YOU the probability of pulling it off in the first 3 or 4 turns) you can clearly see why it is good. And even if the combo fails, it is dead even (therefore does not have a bad matchup and thus does not hurt its position when formulating tiers) with the metagame's average deck. Suicidal Action based decks unless something drastically changes the game compared to what we have right now are clearly top tier just based on sheer numbers and Pros vs. Cons/Good matchups vs. Bad matchups.

Trigram is dead at the moment because it has tons of bad matchups/cons vs. Wind, where as Suicidal Action has non of these.

[Zounder]

Also I love how consistent your little deck ideas are they are perfect combos in every way except they all have different hand costs tard!

sharingan eye 1 fire
SA 1fire
scj 2 lightning
paperbomb 1lightning
tsunade 1 wind
6 early game earth ninja
fan 1 wind.

That will work GREAT! You might even T8 at the next jonin. Now I know you are a little slow so Ill explain this to you. I am being sarcastic.

It seems -you're- the slow one. You just combined his two separate examples. One was lightning/wind, one was fire/x. Why you decided to combine them and say that he was using a hypothetical involving 3 different elements is beyond me. So this point fails, along with everything else you said that Tsu just pointed out.

And -please- stop with the unwarranted insults, they just make you look worse and worse, and sooner or later a ban is gonna get slapped on you.

[Kisame8988]

Great wall of texts Batman!

[BunnySlayer]

What game are you playing? Sexy is practically gone due to the recent ruling. Every deck has to run that combo anywat so when late game DOES roll around who is going to have the best? Wind? No (Tsunade is good but doesnt stand up to APW ES TRIGRAM) Lightning? No Earth? No Water? IDK yet we will have to see what they get. Fire Hell yes! Also no I have no idea how to play naruto. I have only T4 in every big event I have been in.:eek:

The game where I am right and you are wrong obv.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

I took a nap and came back to like 12 walls of text ..... Made me drop my M&Ms -_-

Someone is paying me the dollar, I dont care who.

-Zero

[rocklee10]

So what I'm reading is your all fighting about how Gaara TN killed Trigram. This thread is about Tsunade TAOD. And like I said before. If Gaara TN owns the meta, he needs major errata. I mean, if you had the money, you could go get 3 APWs or 3 ESs. But Gaara TN in no longer in print. Meaning I and many others can no longer win.

Please, someone give my 1 way around Gaara TN. Or is their no way around him?

[Shino'sDad]

Please, someone give my 1 way around Gaara TN. Or is their no way around him?

Well, the Attacker always gets to do their stuff first. So if you press the attack on and they block with him, and you have a Choji+Shika, you get to ping him first. The SR First will do the job as well. *shrug*


Oh, and Wall of Text, everyone? Come on, don't tell me you all are not used to reading more than three lines of text sometimes... >.< I swear, we're all either lazy or I am becoming less lazy.

[Akatsuki Madara]

This card is broken.
I know your all gona say wow people use that term wayyy to much now adays.
Well its true.
I could just not put more coins on your ninjas and that ninja i chose could never be sent otu to battle unless i play as equals or somthing liek that.
I really hate america.
This one card made me quit the game.

Also i dont see any point in giving her satoosa and sanin.

[Zero Master Of Percision]

This card is broken.
I know your all gona say wow people use that term wayyy to much now adays.
Well its true.
I could just not put more coins on your ninjas and that ninja i chose could never be sent otu to battle unless i play as equals or somthing liek that.
I really hate america.
This one card made me quit the game.

Also i dont see any point in giving her satoosa and sanin.

she cant put coins on a ninja thats not battling her.. so
i dont see how you can say she can make a ninja never be sent out -_-

-Zero

[TheHT]

This card is broken.
I know your all gona say wow people use that term wayyy to much now adays.
Well its true.
I could just not put more coins on your ninjas and that ninja i chose could never be sent otu to battle unless i play as equals or somthing liek that.
I really hate america.
This one card made me quit the game.

Also i dont see any point in giving her satoosa and sanin.

oh come on, it REALLY isn't that bad.

think about the state of the meta right now. only two 6 drops are worth playing right now. ST First (more for his jutsu, but the effect is killer too) and Jiraiya (for an effect almost, if not equally, as powerful as Tsunade). why? because everything has shifted towards turn 4 and below. if Bandai is going to make a 6 drop, it had **** well better have an effect worth using (or a stupidly good jutsu -_-).

all i'm going to say about it is that we need time to test. it could turn out insta-staple and warp the meta, or it could just provide Wind with some non-Gaara power (like it's supposed to).

[Akatsuki Madara]

she cant put coins on a ninja thats not battling her.. so
i dont see how you can say she can make a ninja never be sent out -_-

-Zero

Becuase it says your opponent can only remove coins if they have more than one ninja with the coins on it.

[TheHT]

Becuase it says your opponent can only remove coins if they have more than one ninja with the coins on it.

it says one OR more. not more than one. -_-

[visserac88]

All of the cards that were erratted were broken on their own, for some all you need was a hand cost. Gaara kills one of your ninjas to damage your opponents. You can cross read the card all you want but all-in-all,this card alone dose not give you an advantage. We as players make this card broke as the combos we have made with it. Same as 5 prong, the deck was huge and needed fix but it wasnt 5 prong it self, it was ROC. Gaara is diffrent tho because the effect is more simple and the cards Gaara uses is just simple jutsus. It would be pointless to eratta paper bomb or even sexy justsu that was given a new off effect. Gaara it's self is a simple card that alonedose not give an advantage what would make it hard to eratta. IMO I had the idea that you could add to his text "while the ninja is the head ninja of it's team...ect..." But SA will just get around that effect and continue to make Gaara a staple. Their is not much of an errata that would give Gaara a purpose to continue to make him playable at all.

Reunion still is one of the best drawing.
APW still discards your opponents ninja even if they try to use a jutsu.
Ino still trys to stop your opponents from attacking, but the platoon...blah blah
Inherits still has an OK draw power
ROC still draws one less

What would you change Gaara?Discard 2 of your ninjas to inj your opponents ninja, what a joke. Errata SA? Fine but the decks we have now will continue to win it's early game. People are down cuz Gaara is out of print...it happens to all cards, sorry budds.

[Matsu Kuon]

You know, you keep using the argument "We haven't seen all the cards yet" which is true, but you could turn that right back around by saying that your argument fails for the same reason. So please stop saying that. We all know nothing is set in stone. You don't have to keep reminding us, and it doesn't help your argument at all.

I'll let Tsu respond to everything else you said.

By the way, Tsu isn't flaming you at all, you're the one doing all the flaming. In fact I think I'll flag your post.

Ok I wasn't saying any thing in fact. Just stating my opinion on things the way they are now! You and Tsukiomi are the ones telling me strait up I am wrong and Trigram WILL suk in this format. I just THINK that it wont and it will still be staple along with SA to make for a good early game and a good late game. Maybe I am wrong. Have you guys said that? NO! That is the difference between out arguments. Flag my post all you want I haven't said crap that would get me in trouble. Seriously dude now you just look like a RAT tattle tale.

[Matsu Kuon]

If you're running enough Jonins to use Trigram, then yes, you are. If you and I are running similar decks, but I have 4 Jonin and you have 6-8, I have more room for this meta's early game madess and I will have the advantage. I will be faster.



Incorrect. In the mirror, I get advantage early game and your little trigrams can't help you late game.

And I would say Water has the best late game at this point, if you wanted to get technical. Zabs, SR Second, Vortex, while not playable in this meta because water is slow, but you want best late game, there it is.

Heck, DFC + First is better late game than Fire.

But that argument is moot. Early game still dominates.


How do you figure that I have to be running 6-8 jonins? Why cant I be running just 6 which is two more than you? How much of a difference is two more jonins over say a tayuya or Idate? Its not much more of a difference except I have late game counter to DFC and you dont. APW cancels DFC 99 percent of the time 8 trigram cancels dfc 99 percent of the time (I am sure you can think of a cir****tance when it doesn't though with all your genius what if sceniro's) Yes water is very good late game but if you think that it is better than fire's than that is your opinion and probly not even close to half of the people who play this game's opinion. YES EARLY GAME DOMINATES. I have said that before. That does not mean that 8 trigram wont be played of is garb. Holy crap dude I am just stating my opinion.:(

[TheHT]

How do you figure that I have to be running 6-8 jonins? Why cant I be running just 6 which is two more than you? How much of a difference is two more jonins over say a tayuya or Idate? Its not much more of a difference except I have late game counter to DFC and you dont. APW cancels DFC 99 percent of the time 8 trigram cancels dfc 99 percent of the time (I am sure you can think of a cir****tance when it doesn't though with all your genius what if sceniro's) Yes water is very good late game but if you think that it is better than fire's than that is your opinion and probly not even close to half of the people who play this game's opinion. YES EARLY GAME DOMINATES. I have said that before. That does not mean that 8 trigram wont be played of is garb. Holy crap dude I am just stating my opinion.:(

any less than 7 Jonin makes Trigram more dead weight than anything. 7 is the bare minimum.

that Tayuya or Idate also come turns earlier, and guess what? that's what early game is all about. instead of running early drops, though, you're using the slots on late game stuff. if you fall behind early on, there's often no chance at comeback. once the tempo swings to the other side, it takes a hell of a fight to get it back.

[reddragondecease]

*attempt to break intense text walls paired with heavily climactic arguments*This card is interesting. It's effect adds to a short to medium list of cards to stop a single ninja from being brought into battle. Gives me another deck to add to the old cycle. >.>

[Matsu Kuon]

All I see is a wall of text, sorry.

"We have to wait and see the rest of the cards" is all I keep seeing you spout as Zounder said. No one is going to argue with you or what on that....

In my defense about elements, every deck splashes those earth ninja so you can't use that against me.

Decks run Sakura and Gaara as well as Ninth Match, which is both Wind and Lightning at the same time. That's roughly like 8 or 9 wind. For a card that costs ONE wind, roughly 1 in every 4 cards in the deck is wind, with a third of that is still lightning...so you're basically playing only about 12 splashes (6 wind, 6 earth) and then you play an even 14/14 split. That's still pretty consistent in my book. I've never had a problem being able to play the cards considering how fast pre-errata reunion builds chakra. So basically for every 4 chakra I have should be (2 Fire or Lightning, 1 Fire or Lightning, 1 Wind or Earth).

As for what if scenarios, in a meta game like QFPs, What ifs is all you can go off of. Everyone's deck was almost identical at the Jonin, I'm sure yours was no different. I freaked a guy out in round 4 cause I was able to predict every card he played before he played it simply based on guessing. It's not rocket science. So hypothetical scenarios is all you can go off at high level play since the game is decided by lucks and whoever makes the smallest amount of misplays.

My decks will play late game also, FYI. But to have the competent early game I'm talking about, you are running less than 5 drops that are 5 or 6... so odds are your deck is running 5 Jonins at the max...that's not worth justifying 3 Jutsu slots when I could just replace them with stuff that would stop trigram dead cold and aide my early game.

Let me tell you something... I've been playing games competitively probably a lot longer than you... roughly 6 years now. I base my findings based on statistics (tiers/proven facts) as well as the "X Factor" (that a random person can beat a proven top player regardless of what tier their deck/character is. Example: Zounder was relatively unknown til he took on Joe's Freedori, a top tier deck, vs. fire/earth the second tier deck at the time, and almost won).

I'm not just saying things for no reason. The hypothetical scenarios are just to show you why things are good. Based on the turn at which the combo can come out and the mathematical frequency at which it can be pulled off (I'll actually calculate it and SHOW YOU the probability of pulling it off in the first 3 or 4 turns) you can clearly see why it is good. And even if the combo fails, it is dead even (therefore does not have a bad matchup and thus does not hurt its position when formulating tiers) with the metagame's average deck. Suicidal Action based decks unless something drastically changes the game compared to what we have right now are clearly top tier just based on sheer numbers and Pros vs. Cons/Good matchups vs. Bad matchups.

Trigram is dead at the moment because it has tons of bad matchups/cons vs. Wind, where as Suicidal Action has non of these.

I think you bring up some very good points and some very convincing ones:D. I am not saying they are wrong but to say that one of the best jutsu's in the game is DEAD in a meta that has to run fire is just a little iffy to me. Also I am sure you have good sceniro's of "should have made but..." and "almost beat this" to prove your points but they just aren't good arguements. Also NO you have not been playing competitvely longer than me. If you want you can look up my L5R record (L5R takes way more strategy, thinking and brains to play than yugioh or naruto, not to say yugioh is one of the games you play competitvely). All in all I think you have very good arguements and I respect them. Just cus I disagree does not make me wrong.
My only point is if I run the same early game as you give or take 2-4 cards then it is going to be very close until it comes to late game and I have very good late game and all you have is a few jonin's that are decent and early game jutsu (paper bomb excetera..). Once again maybe I am wrong, maybe you are right and all that will be played this meta is early game and maybe a few Tsunade's and Baki's. I just THINK that 8 trigram will be very powerfull. All in all we will find out who is right and who is wrong at the next jonin (2 months away). I have also never dissed SA. I think you are right it is better than 8 tri. Does that change my arguement? No.

[Matsu Kuon]

*attempt to break intense text walls paired with heavily climactic arguments*This card is interesting. It's effect adds to a short to medium list of cards to stop a single ninja from being brought into battle. Gives me another deck to add to the old cycle. >.>



Sorry..:(:(

[Matsu Kuon]

any less than 7 Jonin makes Trigram more dead weight than anything. 7 is the bare minimum.

that Tayuya or Idate also come turns earlier, and guess what? that's what early game is all about. instead of running early drops, though, you're using the slots on late game stuff. if you fall behind early on, there's often no chance at comeback. once the tempo swings to the other side, it takes a hell of a fight to get it back.

Agreed. Yet if you think that 1-2 cards is going to make the difference in a game then you are dead wrong. It all depends on what other people are playing. If I play a sasuke rivalry when every body else is using OLA then that gives me a advantage even if rivalry is not as good as some other card.

[Matsu Kuon]

I took a nap and came back to like 12 walls of text ..... Made me drop my M&Ms -_-

Someone is paying me the dollar, I dont care who.

-Zero

I'll give you 99 cents at the next jonin zero. Sorry to disturb your rest. LOLz. JK. I have awoken a sleeping ZERO DRAGON.

[reddragondecease]

Sorry..:(:(

You shouldn't apologize. I was just adding that part to be random. Besides(no offense intended by this comment), I actually found the arguments comical. Maybe it's my naturally disturbing personality, something like that.

[Matsu Kuon]

It seems -you're- the slow one. You just combined his two separate examples. One was lightning/wind, one was fire/x. Why you decided to combine them and say that he was using a hypothetical involving 3 different elements is beyond me. So this point fails, along with everything else you said that Tsu just pointed out.

And -please- stop with the unwarranted insults, they just make you look worse and worse, and sooner or later a ban is gonna get slapped on you.

A) Good thing you don't issue ban's. Cus everone who disagree's with you would be.
B) Sorry if I said anything that made you sad.
C) He used 4 elements to describe why one card was bad. :\

[Matsu Kuon]

You shouldn't apologize. I was just adding that part to be random. Besides(no offense intended by this comment), I actually found the arguments comical. Maybe it's my naturally disturbing personality, something like that.

LOLZ. Why are you apoligizing it is a valid point. Stop you are making me crap myself. :rolleyes::eek::o. Think about what the smiles mean.

[Zounder]

Ok I wasn't saying any thing in fact. Just stating my opinion on things the way they are now! You and Tsukiomi are the ones telling me strait up I am wrong and Trigram WILL suk in this format.

Unless there is answer to Garra, which is highly unlikely, or massive late game support, also unlikely, then yes, you are wrong.

I just THINK that it wont and it will still be staple along with SA to make for a good early game and a good late game.

See above.

Maybe I am wrong. Have you guys said that? NO!

Said what, exactly? I don't get what you mean here.

Flag my post all you want I haven't said crap that would get me in trouble. Seriously dude now you just look like a RAT tattle tale.

It's not being a rat if you're harassing people. Being a rat would be reporting a thread asking for deck help on the QFP boards.

[Matsu Kuon]

The game where I am right and you are wrong obv.

DUH! I should have known that I am sorry. Will you ever forgive me? :(:o

[reddragondecease]

LOLZ. Why are you apoligizing it is a valid point. Stop you are making me crap myself. :rolleyes::eek::o. Think about what the smiles mean.

Then I shall retreat to my laziness!*backs into shadows*

[RockLee56887]

Gen may become more playable. If will make Tsunade's effect last for nothing...

I remove a coin at the beginning of the turn, and Gen hits the other.

[Kisame8988]

Gen may become more playable. If will make Tsunade's effect last for nothing...

I remove a coin at the beginning of the turn, and Gen hits the other.

He removes a POISON coin, not a DRUG coin.

Apples and oranges.

[Matsu Kuon]

All of the cards that were erratted were broken on their own, for some all you need was a hand cost. Gaara kills one of your ninjas to damage your opponents. You can cross read the card all you want but all-in-all,this card alone dose not give you an advantage. We as players make this card broke as the combos we have made with it. Same as 5 prong, the deck was huge and needed fix but it wasnt 5 prong it self, it was ROC. Gaara is diffrent tho because the effect is more simple and the cards Gaara uses is just simple jutsus. It would be pointless to eratta paper bomb or even sexy justsu that was given a new off effect. Gaara it's self is a simple card that alonedose not give an advantage what would make it hard to eratta. IMO I had the idea that you could add to his text "while the ninja is the head ninja of it's team...ect..." But SA will just get around that effect and continue to make Gaara a staple. Their is not much of an errata that would give Gaara a purpose to continue to make him playable at all.

Reunion still is one of the best drawing.
APW still discards your opponents ninja even if they try to use a jutsu.
Ino still trys to stop your opponents from attacking, but the platoon...blah blah
Inherits still has an OK draw power
ROC still draws one less

What would you change Gaara?Discard 2 of your ninjas to inj your opponents ninja, what a joke. Errata SA? Fine but the decks we have now will continue to win it's early game. People are down cuz Gaara is out of print...it happens to all cards, sorry budds.

Agree'd. I second that. Very good points. Is there anything else I can do to praise this quote?:D

[Zounder]

How do you figure that I have to be running 6-8 jonins? Why cant I be running just 6 which is two more than you?

Running 6 is enough to warrant trigram, but then, as I said, your deck is slower.

How much of a difference is two more jonins over say a tayuya or Idate? Its not much more of a difference except I have late game counter to DFC and you dont.[quote]

It's not much more of a difference except I have more ability to put the game away before your jonins hit the field.

[quote]APW cancels DFC 99 percent of the time 8 trigram cancels dfc 99 percent of the time (I am sure you can think of a cir****tance when it doesn't though with all your genius what if sceniro's)

I don't use what if scenarios, if you haven't noticed. I use facts. And DFC decks use Neji DBB to make it so you cant pay for trigram. So saying it negates DFC 99% of the time is completely false. APW is a good counter for DFC, and if you're running fire then I think APW is a good idea to sideboard or even main if DFC is still top. Which I dont think it will be because of Reunions nerf. So the fact that APW is good against DFC is still moot.

Yes water is very good late game but if you think that it is better than fire's than that is your opinion and probly not even close to half of the people who play this game's opinion.

The vast majority of people who play this game don't know high competitive play, so it wouldn't be surprised if more than half of the community disagrees with me on many issues. Just because the majority thinks something doesn't mean it's right.

YES EARLY GAME DOMINATES. I have said that before. That does not mean that 8 trigram wont be played of is garb. Holy crap dude I am just stating my opinion.:(

It's cool to state your opinion as long as you stop insulting and harassing people along the way. Yes, early game dominates. and yes, that's why Trigram is bad in the meta.

[Zounder]

A) Good thing you don't issue ban's. Cus everone who disagree's with you would be.

You are completely immature. You know very well I don't think people should be banned if they disagree with me. Rocklee10 and I just got into a debate in some other thread (maybe this thread?), but he never insulted anybody along the way like you're doing. And regardless, I'm not saying you should be banned. I'm saying you should watch yourself.

C) He used 4 elements to describe why one card was bad. :\

Do I need to spell it out for you again? There were TWO separate examples, if I recall correctly one was fire/lightning one was wind/lightning, using earth cards like Shika and Cho that are staple in ANY element deck that isnt some crazy thing like FPS. His examples are not invalid due to him using a deck with "4 elements" in it. Each deck is a popular archetype using well played cards that will be played in the next meta, and the earth is just early game stuff that is splashed.

[Matsu Kuon]

Running 6 is enough to warrant trigram, but then, as I said, your deck is slower.

Slower by two cards. Then when late game (turn 4-6) comes around I have the advantage.

[quote]How much of a difference is two more jonins over say a tayuya or Idate? Its not much more of a difference except I have late game counter to DFC and you dont.[quote]

What the heck is your late game counter to DFC that is better?

It's not much more of a difference except I have more ability to put the game away before your jonins hit the field.

With two cards? How do you get a perfect start and I don't play into things (remember same early game -+ 2 cards).

I don't use what if scenarios, if you haven't noticed. I use facts. And DFC decks use Neji DBB to make it so you cant pay for trigram. So saying it negates DFC 99% of the time is completely false. APW is a good counter for DFC, and if you're running fire then I think APW is a good idea to sideboard or even main if DFC is still top. Which I dont think it will be because of Reunions nerf. So the fact that APW is good against DFC is still moot.

APW is not just the counter to DFC it is a counter to many things. If you can't see that then that is your problem. I also don't think DFC will be top tier. YAY! We agree on something!

The vast majority of people who play this game don't know high competitive play, so it wouldn't be surprised if more than half of the community disagrees with me on many issues. Just because the majority thinks something doesn't mean it's right.

I know competitive play and I disagree with you does that make me a noob? :\



It's cool to state your opinion as long as you stop insulting and harassing people along the way. Yes, early game dominates. and yes, that's why Trigram is bad in the meta.


HARASSING? :\

Look up in the dictonary what that means.

[Zounder]

Slower by two cards. Then when late game (turn 4-6) comes around I have the advantage.

If you wanna argue that two less early game cards doesn't matter, then you can't argue that two -more- late game cards matter.


HARASSING? :\

Look up in the dictonary what that means.

to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.

That's what you've been doing, mostly in that response to Tsu. And you have a history of this too.

But I'm not here to tell you you're acting like a child. We don't need to get into a discussion about what exactly your actions are clarified as. I'm here to speak the turth about Trigram. And in fact, this thread is about Tsunade. So can we end this?

[Matsu Kuon]

If you wanna argue that two less early game cards doesn't matter, then you can't argue that two -more- late game cards matter.




to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.

That's what you've been doing, mostly in that response to Tsu. And you have a history of this too.

But I'm not here to tell you you're acting like a child. We don't need to get into a discussion about what exactly your actions are clarified as. I'm here to speak the turth about Trigram. And in fact, this thread is about Tsunade. So can we end this?

Sure we can not argue about this here. Lets just settle this at the next jonin. All in all my point is that I think Tsunade will see very limited play in competeive play because of cards like apw 8tri and other good fire cards.

[Zounder]

Sorry if this ends up being a double post, I just noticed more in that big quote bubble.


What the heck is your late game counter to DFC that is better?

Where did I claim there was a better counter? I don't feel like getting into a DFC argument. I just -agreed- with you, partially, take what you can get. =P


APW is not just the counter to DFC it is a counter to many things. If you can't see that then that is your problem.

I'm not saying APW is bad. Especially with Tsunade coming into play, that means no possibility of big tree, and APW really hits the new Tsunade hard. In a fire/lightning deck I think APW might see -some- play. APW does have weaknesses. APW being outprioritized by Gaara has a lot to do with it. But the total amount of late game is going to stay the same, to make room for insane early game like in this meta.


I know competitive play and I disagree with you does that make me a noob? :\

Where did I say disagreeing with me makes you a noob? You like to put words in my mouth.

Sure we can not argue about this here. Lets just settle this at the next jonin. All in all my point is that I think Tsunade will see very limited play in competeive play because of cards like apw 8tri and other good fire cards.

Sounds good. I'll see you at ATF! =D

[Matsu Kuon]

Just a sec I am in the middle of a proxy game.

[Zounder]

Just a sec I am in the middle of a proxy game.

It's cool, I'm gonna head off to bed anyway.

On topic: Actually thinking about Tsunade's effect, regardless of how good or bad she is, if she gets left out on the field untouched for about 3 turns, it's gonna be nuts. Drug coins everywhere!

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

A) Good thing you don't issue ban's. Cus everone who disagree's with you would be.

I am a moderator for PlayTCG ;D

But no seriously I wouldn't ban you but you would DEFINITELY receive a warning for the absurd amount of double posting you're doing right now. Please learn to multi quote in one post.

And why do we have to "settle this at the next jonin" every single post? It's like you're looking for a fight. I won't mind playing you at the Jonin if I have to. . . and you've seriously been playing games for money/competitively for longer than 6 years? I haven't always been playing TCGs competitively but I've been playing games for money since about halfway through 2001~. (It started out slow at a local level but it was still money, I didn't really get into it until about 2003~2004)

How old are you anyways? I doubt you're any older than Fuuma, in which case I can understand why you're so desperate to jump into a fight. If I'm wrong, oh well. Regardless though you're being a bit rash with these posts. It's just like insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you. No one's picking on you, we're just saying that based on facts, Trigram won't be as good as it used to be. Arguing against it gets you no where because based on what we've seen and simple math with the cards we have in hand, the percentage of successfully removing a ninja with suicidal action are much higher than with Trigram, and it is accomplished much sooner. It's just faster and more efficient.

If you want to disagree for another time with me, I'll break out the pen and paper and show you why SA > Trigram at the moment unless we see something else.

Edit: Real rough estimate in case anyone cares. 44% to play Suicidal Action on turn 0. 48% to play 8 Trigram on turn 5. Almost the same percentage rate. If Naruto OLA is your 0 drop, you've got an 8 Trigram effect on turn 0 (of course this requires you to give up 2 cards from hand to hard charge, and is therefore not smart). Percentage to play Naruto OLA and SA on turn 0: 18%~, Turn 1: 22%~, Turn 2: 28%~, Turn 3: 33%~, Turn 4: 38%~, Turn 5: (The turn you can play Trigram with Fire most likely) 44%~...almost the same and doesn't require a Jonin and can't be gigantic fan'd. Accomplishes the same effect. This assumes that the player playing Suicidal Action plays no card that allows them to draw any cards, otherwise the percentage goes up another 4~8% per card drawn. Assuming you play a tutor card like Ninth Match, the percentage goes up roughly another 4% again.

[Matsu Kuon]

I am a moderator for PlayTCG ;D

But no seriously I wouldn't ban you but you would DEFINITELY receive a warning for the absurd amount of double posting you're doing right now. Please learn to multi quote in one post.

And why do we have to "settle this at the next jonin" every single post? It's like you're looking for a fight. I won't mind playing you at the Jonin if I have to. . . and you've seriously been playing games for money/competitively for longer than 6 years? I haven't always been playing TCGs competitively but I've been playing games for money since about halfway through 2001~. (It started out slow at a local level but it was still money, I didn't really get into it until about 2003~2004)

How old are you anyways? I doubt you're any older than Fuuma, in which case I can understand why you're so desperate to jump into a fight. If I'm wrong, oh well. Regardless though you're being a bit rash with these posts. It's just like insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you. No one's picking on you, we're just saying that based on facts, Trigram won't be as good as it used to be. Arguing against it gets you no where because based on what we've seen and simple math with the cards we have in hand, the percentage of successfully removing a ninja with suicidal action are much higher than with Trigram, and it is accomplished much sooner. It's just faster and more efficient.

If you want to disagree for another time with me, I'll break out the pen and paper and show you why SA > Trigram at the moment unless we see something else.

Edit: Real rough estimate in case anyone cares. 44% to play Suicidal Action on turn 0. 48% to play 8 Trigram on turn 5. Almost the same percentage rate. If Naruto OLA is your 0 drop, you've got an 8 Trigram effect on turn 0 (of course this requires you to give up 2 cards from hand to hard charge, and is therefore not smart). Percentage to play Naruto OLA and SA on turn 0: 18%~, Turn 1: 22%~, Turn 2: 28%~, Turn 3: 33%~, Turn 4: 38%~, Turn 5: (The turn you can play Trigram with Fire most likely) 44%~...almost the same and doesn't require a Jonin and can't be gigantic fan'd. Accomplishes the same effect. This assumes that the player playing Suicidal Action plays no card that allows them to draw any cards, otherwise the percentage goes up another 4~8% per card drawn. Assuming you play a tutor card like Ninth Match, the percentage goes up roughly another 4% again.


Ok SA is better than 8tri and I am not saying that 8tri is better, rather just a really nice compliment. Give me a sec and I'll respond to the rest. I am just in the middle of a Proxy game. Goodnight Zounder.

[Matsu Kuon]

I am a moderator for PlayTCG ;D

But no seriously I wouldn't ban you but you would DEFINITELY receive a warning for the absurd amount of double posting you're doing right now. Please learn to multi quote in one post.

And why do we have to "settle this at the next jonin" every single post? It's like you're looking for a fight. I won't mind playing you at the Jonin if I have to. . . and you've seriously been playing games for money/competitively for longer than 6 years? I haven't always been playing TCGs competitively but I've been playing games for money since about halfway through 2001~. (It started out slow at a local level but it was still money, I didn't really get into it until about 2003~2004)

How old are you anyways? I doubt you're any older than Fuuma, in which case I can understand why you're so desperate to jump into a fight. If I'm wrong, oh well. Regardless though you're being a bit rash with these posts. It's just like insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you. No one's picking on you, we're just saying that based on facts, Trigram won't be as good as it used to be. Arguing against it gets you no where because based on what we've seen and simple math with the cards we have in hand, the percentage of successfully removing a ninja with suicidal action are much higher than with Trigram, and it is accomplished much sooner. It's just faster and more efficient.

If you want to disagree for another time with me, I'll break out the pen and paper and show you why SA > Trigram at the moment unless we see something else.

Edit: Real rough estimate in case anyone cares. 44% to play Suicidal Action on turn 0. 48% to play 8 Trigram on turn 5. Almost the same percentage rate. If Naruto OLA is your 0 drop, you've got an 8 Trigram effect on turn 0 (of course this requires you to give up 2 cards from hand to hard charge, and is therefore not smart). Percentage to play Naruto OLA and SA on turn 0: 18%~, Turn 1: 22%~, Turn 2: 28%~, Turn 3: 33%~, Turn 4: 38%~, Turn 5: (The turn you can play Trigram with Fire most likely) 44%~...almost the same and doesn't require a Jonin and can't be gigantic fan'd. Accomplishes the same effect. This assumes that the player playing Suicidal Action plays no card that allows them to draw any cards, otherwise the percentage goes up another 4~8% per card drawn. Assuming you play a tutor card like Ninth Match, the percentage goes up roughly another 4% again.


Yes I have been playing competitive tcg's since I was 13. I am 18 now. I played L5R in a very competitive format and thrived with a very good deck. IDK if you know how complicated L5R is but you will find that I did very very good at that game, also my brother did aswell, who is on my team and whom I playtest against. He had a scorpian/crane deck that was completely original and rocked everyone else's world in the gold diamond format. My brother and I are very good at strategy. Also I absolutely love the naruto world, it just so happens that there was a extremely crappy game built for it (crappy compared to other game formats) in my opinion. I still play the game for my love of the naruto universe. Also I have said this oh so many times, but 8tri IS NOT BETTER THAN SA, Idk why you keep using that as a reasoning point? :\

If you really think I am multi-posting and it annoys you, then I am sorry. I didn't mean to. I just had to leave for a while and when I came back there was so much to reply to. I am 5 years older than Fumma and he was being a punk late last month and I would also like to see if he acts so big the next time we meet? I am not saying I will beat anybody up. I am sorry if you mistook me I am only saying that alot of people on this sight talk really big online and then when they meet you in person they are real quite, won't talk to much less diss you. So it really annoys me when someone says something online that they wouldn't say to your face. I am the type of person who will tell you that you are wrong to your face and cause contrversy when I meet you, I am also the type of guy that will apoligize for it later and try and be your friend as long as you are not arrogant anymore and don't have CRAP to say. When I said we will settle this at the next jonin I just mean card wise. I would not hurt anybody enless they were being a real A$$. Which I don't think you have been btw. I also don't think you are picking on me I just think that you are making STATEMENTS instead of assumtions, which is not a good idea right now considering that we haven't seen all the cards. All I am saying is that I THINK 8TRI will be good while you and zounder are saying that IT IS NOT GOOD. Also if you want to call your what if's math that is fine. When you say stuff like my choji injures your es who is head ninja and then I discard choji to give one damage to Itachi, that is not math but just pure not smart we can argue forever about what I have in my hand to what you have in your hand and whether or not I am attacking and I have priority with apw or you have priority with gaara cus you are attacking, but the truth of the matter is that you really just have to playtest. I hope I see you at the next Jonin and we see who will rank higher (not trying to imply that I will just saying I cant wait to see cus IDK).

[Akatsuki Madara]

it says one OR more. not more than one. -_-

My bad.
I still think its too good.

[nathanakasasuke]

this card is gunna pwn all :D

[rasengan_pwns_chidori]

it's amazing!

[sasuke_of_gdb]

hmmm this thread is 20 pages of phail i think it should be deleted

[Kanye West]

the new tsunade is broke

I hate Zero.

[rocklee10]

the new tsunade is broke

I hate Zero.

New Tsunade is good.

What did Zero do?

[Matsu Kuon]

the new tsunade is broke

I hate Zero.

The new Tsunade is good not broke. Zero is a decent fella. Kanye West fails cus he is a preppy college kid who tries to be gangster.

[Deidara Inuzuka]

*laughs* lol kanye west does fail

[Zero Master Of Percision]

the new tsunade is broke

I hate Zero.

Tsunade is a very good card

Dont hate me cause I'm beautiful?

-Zero

[TheHT]

Yes I have been playing competitive tcg's since I was 13. I am 18 now. I played L5R in a very competitive format and thrived with a very good deck. IDK if you know how complicated L5R is but you will find that I did very very good at that game, also my brother did aswell, who is on my team and whom I playtest against. He had a scorpian/crane deck that was completely original and rocked everyone else's world in the gold diamond format. My brother and I are very good at strategy. Also I absolutely love the naruto world, it just so happens that there was a extremely crappy game built for it (crappy compared to other game formats) in my opinion. I still play the game for my love of the naruto universe. Also I have said this oh so many times, but 8tri IS NOT BETTER THAN SA, Idk why you keep using that as a reasoning point? :\

If you really think I am multi-posting and it annoys you, then I am sorry. I didn't mean to. I just had to leave for a while and when I came back there was so much to reply to. I am 5 years older than Fumma and he was being a punk late last month and I would also like to see if he acts so big the next time we meet? I am not saying I will beat anybody up. I am sorry if you mistook me I am only saying that alot of people on this sight talk really big online and then when they meet you in person they are real quite, won't talk to much less diss you. So it really annoys me when someone says something online that they wouldn't say to your face. I am the type of person who will tell you that you are wrong to your face and cause contrversy when I meet you, I am also the type of guy that will apoligize for it later and try and be your friend as long as you are not arrogant anymore and don't have CRAP to say. When I said we will settle this at the next jonin I just mean card wise. I would not hurt anybody enless they were being a real A$$. Which I don't think you have been btw. I also don't think you are picking on me I just think that you are making STATEMENTS instead of assumtions, which is not a good idea right now considering that we haven't seen all the cards. All I am saying is that I THINK 8TRI will be good while you and zounder are saying that IT IS NOT GOOD. Also if you want to call your what if's math that is fine. When you say stuff like my choji injures your es who is head ninja and then I discard choji to give one damage to Itachi, that is not math but just pure not smart we can argue forever about what I have in my hand to what you have in your hand and whether or not I am attacking and I have priority with apw or you have priority with gaara cus you are attacking, but the truth of the matter is that you really just have to playtest. I hope I see you at the next Jonin and we see who will rank higher (not trying to imply that I will just saying I cant wait to see cus IDK).

L5R is NOT that complicated. the biggest issue is learning the timing on everything.


all we're saying is that by taking out those 2-4 cards to give yourself more late game, you're lowering your chances of pulling off a good early game. when those percentages start catching up to you, all the late game in the world isn't going to save you from the massive tempo i've built up. and sure, play Trigrams on me. there is way more than enough negation/damage for it to not even matter.

[visserac88]

Got my new deck figured out from the cards that we all ready know from bandai...pure power dudes.

Who's running 3 of this chick once she comes out from what we know so far from BOD?

[Matsu Kuon]

Tsunade is a very good card

Dont hate me cause I'm beautiful?

-Zero

Um I got your back on the decent guy thing but *cough* *UH* *UM*! Nevermind, ill be nice.

[Matsu Kuon]

L5R is NOT that complicated. the biggest issue is learning the timing on everything.


all we're saying is that by taking out those 2-4 cards to give yourself more late game, you're lowering your chances of pulling off a good early game. when those percentages start catching up to you, all the late game in the world isn't going to save you from the massive tempo i've built up. and sure, play Trigrams on me. there is way more than enough negation/damage for it to not even matter.

If you don't think that L5R is complicated then you obviously don't know what you are talking about, every instlaement of L5R has more useable cards then all the cards that have even been brought out yet for naruto. Second If you want to bealive that having 2-4 cards difference in a deck is going to win it for you that is fine, I am not saying that JONIN'S WILL BE PLAYED maybe all that will be played this set is udon moegi, I don't really care. I just think that with SA garra choji shika sasuke freedori naruto OLA dominating the early game and then 8tri ES apw for late game to finish things off will be very good, that is all I have said from the beggining, if you know that that is not the case then congradulations I am proud of you. It is just an opinion, like I said before we will just see whether it makes it or not. You can be as sure about me being wrong as I am sure that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to L5R. Difference is I just THINK 8tri es APW will be very good, and you KNOW they wont that is our only difference of opinion.

[CopyEyeKakashi]

it says when battling put the coins on, but then if they can't be sent out to battle isa she impossible to be blocked without negating her effect???

[TheHT]

If you don't think that L5R is complicated then you obviously don't know what you are talking about, every instlaement of L5R has more useable cards then all the cards that have even been brought out yet for naruto. Second If you want to bealive that having 2-4 cards difference in a deck is going to win it for you that is fine, I am not saying that JONIN'S WILL BE PLAYED maybe all that will be played this set is udon moegi, I don't really care. I just think that with SA garra choji shika sasuke freedori naruto OLA dominating the early game and then 8tri ES apw for late game to finish things off will be very good, that is all I have said from the beggining, if you know that that is not the case then congradulations I am proud of you. It is just an opinion, like I said before we will just see whether it makes it or not. You can be as sure about me being wrong as I am sure that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to L5R. Difference is I just THINK 8tri es APW will be very good, and you KNOW they wont that is our only difference of opinion.

WOW you're dumb. there's a difference between a game being complicated and a game actually making GOOD cards every set. while it is a step above most card games out there in learning curve, it isn't near as hard as you're making it out to be. you just have more cards to memorize each set.

2-4 cards can and will make a difference in the long run in consistency, which is the heart and soul of every card game in existance. if you have a choice between something that is good early on or something that is good later on, you pick the early on card. especially in the meta today.

[Matsu Kuon]

WOW you're dumb. there's a difference between a game being complicated and a game actually making GOOD cards every set. while it is a step above most card games out there in learning curve, it isn't near as hard as you're making it out to be. you just have more cards to memorize each set.

2-4 cards can and will make a difference in the long run in consistency, which is the heart and soul of every card game in existance. if you have a choice between something that is good early on or something that is good later on, you pick the early on card. especially in the meta today.

Yeah I'm dumb because I said L5R is complicated :\? That makes a whole lot of sense. The fact that you have to call me dumb in order to prove your point just tells me you are another LITTLE PUNK who likes to talk big online but would never say anything like that to me in person. Once again if you don't think L5R is complicated then you just don't know what you are talking about. Ill run a poll to prove you wrong if you really want me too. Secondly you don't know what WILL be making the difference next set cus water could get something so good that now water has to be run and not wind/fire/lightning. Once again IDK, but I am glad I am talking to you cus you know everything. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY WHAT WILL AND WONT BE GOOD IN THE END YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER. We will see who is right and who is wrong after the set comes out and the top tier decks are posted.

[Ryu Juini]

Apparently Matsu Kuon is a hypocrite =/ good job buddy.

[Matsu Kuon]

Apparently Matsu Kuon is a hypocrite =/ good job buddy.

Why?:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[TheHT]

Yeah I'm dumb because I said L5R is complicated :\? That makes a whole lot of sense. The fact that you have to call me dumb in order to prove your point just tells me you are another LITTLE PUNK who likes to talk big online but would never say anything like that to me in person. Once again if you don't think L5R is complicated then you just don't know what you are talking about. Ill run a poll to prove you wrong if you really want me too. Secondly you don't know what WILL be making the difference next set cus water could get something so good that now water has to be run and not wind/fire/lightning. Once again IDK, but I am glad I am talking to you cus you know everything. NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SAY WHAT WILL AND WONT BE GOOD IN THE END YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER. We will see who is right and who is wrong after the set comes out and the top tier decks are posted.

no, you're reasoning for why L5R was complicated is just stupid. it's more complicated because every card that comes out is actually good? WTF?

honestly, come to Kotei '08. i'll be there, and i'll even wear a shirt with TheHT written on it. you can decide whether or not i understand L5R.

[Matsu Kuon]

no, you're reasoning for why L5R was complicated is just stupid. it's more complicated because every card that comes out is actually good? WTF?

honestly, come to Kotei '08. i'll be there, and i'll even wear a shirt with TheHT written on it. you can decide whether or not i understand L5R.

C U there. But seriously what card game's do you think are more complicated than L5R. BTW I think you have some very good arguements about the early game thing and I dont think you are wrong I just DK and happen to think that APW ES 8tri are and will be good this does not need to be a flame war man. WTF? My point about L5R was that with all of the cards in naruto that will never see any play, if compared to all the cards in L5R almost every card can and probly will eventually be turned into a good combo. Once again all I am saying is L5R is more complicated than naruto. Do you seriously disagree with that? :\

[TheHT]

If you don't think that L5R is complicated then you obviously don't know what you are talking about, every instlaement of L5R has more useable cards then all the cards that have even been brought out yet for naruto.

right here, you implied that it's more complicated because it has more usable cards every set. THAT'S what i was arguing.

L5R has a steep learning curve, that's for sure. however, with Samurai edition (and the much, MUCH needed streamlined rulebook), it is very approachable for anyone. it isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be. hell, if i was able to learn it, anyone can >_>

I understand that you're stating your opinion. what do you think i'm doing? the only difference is that i have last format's Chunin/Jonin results backing my statement that early game is the biggest priority in deck-building.

[Matsu Kuon]

right here, you implied that it's more complicated because it has more usable cards every set. THAT'S what i was arguing.

L5R has a steep learning curve, that's for sure. however, with Samurai edition (and the much, MUCH needed streamlined rulebook), it is very approachable for anyone. it isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be. hell, if i was able to learn it, anyone can >_>

I understand that you're stating your opinion. what do you think i'm doing? the only difference is that i have last format's Chunin/Jonin results backing my statement that early game is the biggest priority in deck-building.

I don't see how I am making it out to be more complicated than it is? All I said was it was complicated HOLY CRAP! So since everyone runs close to the same cards in naruto and every good player knows every good strategy in naruto while in L5R there are just so many that you can't keep track of them all. Is that what you are arguing cus that is my reason. NO YOU ARE NOT JUST STATING YOUR OPINION. You are saying such and such "WILL or WILL NOT" you are stating facts about a meta we havent seen yet.

[Deidara Inuzuka]

stop arguing about a CARD GAME

[Zounder]

Difference is I just THINK 8tri es APW will be very good, and you KNOW they wont that is our only difference of opinion.

Matsu, we don't claim to -know- anything. We are stating opinions as well. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we think our word is necessarily a fact.

Don't confuse that with the times where I back things up by saying they are facts, for example, "Gaara Tragic Name is the best Gaara", but as far as a set that isn't even out yet, we are stating our opinions without physical evidence, such as chunin/jonin results to back it up.

So my point is, we are stating out opinion just like you are. So the fact that you keep telling saying what I quoted, but wording it differently each time, just makes it sound like you're telling us we're not allowed to have an opinion.

You say we use words such as "will" or "will not". That's part of how an opinion works. Example: "I think fire will be good next set". I used will. that's an opinion.

[missingo]

Apparently Matsu Kuon is a hypocrite =/ good job buddy.
Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...

[visserac88]

::off topic:: You could make Gaara like ino, during your turn or your opponents is the only time you can use his effect. But, if it was your opponents turn then the priotity would get smashed =/ ::off topis::

[Tsu Kiyo Me]

Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...

Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...


Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...


Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...


Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...


I'm tired of this thread seriously. It's just one man against the world who thinks he's right and everyone else is wrong when they're not even claiming to be right in the first place.

I'm confused because I'm being thrust into arguments I don't wanna argue about. But I'm sure as most of you have noticed, Matsu is kinda looping in circles here to the point of confusion. I'm completely lost... but if he wants to keep arguing that's fine. I was on the debate team senior year in high school. I didn't lose a single debate.... only 1 draw. So if you wants to have fun tiring himself out I can do that too :D I'm bored and there's nothing else to do.

[visserac88]

I'm tired of this thread seriously. It's just one man against the world who thinks he's right and everyone else is wrong when they're not even claiming to be right in the first place.

I'm confused because I'm being thrust into arguments I don't wanna argue about. But I'm sure as most of you have noticed, Matsu is kinda looping in circles here to the point of confusion. I'm completely lost... but if he wants to keep arguing that's fine. I was on the debate team senior year in high school. I didn't lose a single debate.... only 1 draw. So if you wants to have fun tiring himself out I can do that too :D I'm bored and there's nothing else to do.

that's sweet....my budd was huge at arguements and always seen things his way. A teacher made him the head of our schools debate team and now he's a real annoying ......

I was a captain in a soccer team for 3 years straight x.x do I get any brownie points?

[Zabuza Hellsing]

it has it's good share of work

[visserac88]

it has it's good share of work

you talking about Tsunade dude?

[Matsu Kuon]

Matsu, we don't claim to -know- anything. We are stating opinions as well. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we think our word is necessarily a fact.

Trigram is terrible.

I was gone for awhile so I haven't had time to respond. You say 8 tri is terriable, that looks like a fact to me.:eek:

[Matsu Kuon]

Matsu, we don't claim to -know- anything. We are stating opinions as well. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we think our word is necessarily a fact.

Don't confuse that with the times where I back things up by saying they are facts, for example, "Gaara Tragic Name is the best Gaara", but as far as a set that isn't even out yet, we are stating our opinions without physical evidence, such as chunin/jonin results to back it up.

So my point is, we are stating out opinion just like you are. So the fact that you keep telling saying what I quoted, but wording it differently each time, just makes it sound like you're telling us we're not allowed to have an opinion.

You say we use words such as "will" or "will not". That's part of how an opinion works. Example: "I think fire will be good next set". I used will. that's an opinion.

If you think saying things like 8tri IS bad, and that is just your opinion, then my bad. It just sounds like you are saying 8tri is bad, I guess I didn't realize that is not a fact. I on the other hand have not said once that you guys are wrong and the new decks wont run mostly early game. All I have said is that I THINK fire will have a advantage with the best late game, once again maybe I am wrong.

[Matsu Kuon]

Nice post.

If I was Matsu I would just stop arguing...

How am I being a Hypocrite? :confused::confused:

[Matsu Kuon]

WOW you're dumb. there's a difference between a game being complicated and a game actually making GOOD cards every set. while it is a step above most card games out there in learning curve, it isn't near as hard as you're making it out to be. you just have more cards to memorize each set.

2-4 cards can and will make a difference in the long run in consistency, which is the heart and soul of every card game in existance. if you have a choice between something that is good early on or something that is good later on, you pick the early on card. especially in the meta today.

Maybe that is the reason for me being so defensive if that is what you think I am being zounder. For people like this guy who says crap LIKE I'm DUMB because I have a difference of opinion. Sounded like you were doing the same thing. If you are only stating your opinion and are not saying that I AM(in the sense that it is a fact and nothing is going to change me being wrong, also in the sense that it is not an opinion yet just a fact) then I have no problems. I said before I think you guys have very good points about why Garra tempoish decks will dominate, its funny cus I agree with that. You will have to play alot of early game in order to be competitive, only differnce is I think that the level of early game will be a little oh just a little less like 2-5 cards to make way for 8tri. So we agree on everything except for maybe just a few cards, and I don't understand why you guys think I am so wrong?:confused:

[Zounder]

I was gone for awhile so I haven't had time to respond. You say 8 tri is terriable, that looks like a fact to me.:eek:

Isn't the "In my opinion" implied? Do you really want me to type that every single sentence?:eek:

[Matsu Kuon]

Isn't the "In my opinion" implied? Do you really want me to type that every single sentence?:eek:

When telling someone that they are wrong try thowing it in then and you will find alot of people will appreciate it. Other than that i don't care what you say.