Bandai's Tournament Software

[BalanceBJJ]

Needs to be changed a little bit.

So yesterday we only had 5 rather then then 8-10 that's been as of late and the tournament went like this.

Round 1:
A vs B (A Wins)
C vs D (C Wins)
E (Bye)

Round 2
B vs E (B Wins)
C vs A (C Wins)
D (Bye)

Round 3
D vs A (D Wins)
C vs E (E Wins)
B (Bye)

So after 3 rounds 4 players are 2-1, rather then have another round, Bandai's Tournament software goes to tie breakers, and C Wins by virtue of not having a bye. Basically the third round was pointless because player E could never make up the ground he lost by having the bye.

Anyone else come up against issues like this?

[scubadude]

We have had issues as well no one likes the new software either.

[LordxMugen]

ACTUALLY, your doing it wrong. cause after 3 rounds (or more for however many people you have) you cut to top 2 (or 4 if you have enough people) with the playoffs button. then it ends, my group found that out in our last tournament. it ticked me off so much, cause on the site, they dont really tell you about that. i dont even think its in the tourney handbook either, they just assume you get it. but thats pretty much how it works in a nut shell.

[scubadude]

ACTUALLY, your doing it wrong. cause after 3 rounds (or more for however many people you have) you cut to top 2 (or 4 if you have enough people) with the playoffs button. then it ends, my group found that out in our last tournament. it ticked me off so much, cause on the site, they dont really tell you about that. i dont even think its in the tourney handbook either, they just assume you get it. but thats pretty much how it works in a nut shell.

Why would you do a top cut with less then 12 people doesnt make any since too me . The tie breakers should take care of it if you follow the swiss rules 4 people 2 rounds and 6-8 people 3 rounds .

[soviet prince]

yeah maybe try to have 5 ronds with each person having a bye

[LordxMugen]

Why would you do a top cut with less then 12 people doesnt make any since too me . The tie breakers should take care of it if you follow the swiss rules 4 people 2 rounds and 6-8 people 3 rounds . actually even with 4 people its supposed to be 3 swiss rounds before a cut to top 2, whereas with 8 people its 4 swiss rounds then i imagine its a cut to top 4 (i think). but anyways, thats what we found out. cause if you dont cut after swiss, i dont think they consider it a finished tournament.

[Random-Man]

Needs to be changed a little bit.

So yesterday we only had 5 rather then then 8-10 that's been as of late and the tournament went like this.

Round 1:
A vs B (A Wins)
C vs D (C Wins)
E (Bye)

Round 2
B vs E (B Wins)
C vs A (C Wins)
D (Bye)

Round 3
D vs A (D Wins)
C vs E (E Wins)
B (Bye)

So after 3 rounds 4 players are 2-1, rather then have another round, Bandai's Tournament software goes to tie breakers, and C Wins by virtue of not having a bye. Basically the third round was pointless because player E could never make up the ground he lost by having the bye.

Anyone else come up against issues like this?

My locals had the same problem once. We did a cut to the top 2.

[swordmaster]

basically without a top 2 cut it does not work at all. Like I think last week what happened is we had a 3 way tie, 2 between 2 people without bi's and one person with a bi. the result is the system just gave 3 wins to a person and was like here you get 3 points for no reason. the only conclusion is to have playoffs after the 3 swiss rounds, otherwise the software screws up if you have a 3 way tie with 4-5 people.

[scubadude]

actually even with 4 people its supposed to be 3 swiss rounds before a cut to top 2, whereas with 8 people its 4 swiss rounds then i imagine its a cut to top 4 (i think). but anyways, thats what we found out. cause if you dont cut after swiss, i dont think they consider it a finished tournament.

Ok if you have 4 people here is what happens :

A plays B B wins

C plays D D wins

B plays D D wins

C plays A A wins

So D is undefeated C is last place with no wins and then tie breakers will determine A and B you dont need 3 rounds . If the tie breakers aren't doing their job then the software need to be updated to determine tie breakers better.

[swordmaster]

Here is what I see when I imput the data, (we may be saying the same thing scubadude so bare with me a minute.

Round 1
Player A vs Player B = Player A wins and gets 3 points
Player C vs Player D = Player D wins and Gets 3 points

Round 2
Player A vs Player C = Player A Wins gets 3 More Points for 6 total
Player B vs Player D = Player B Wins gets 3 Points

Round 3
Player A vs Player D = Player D Wins gets 3 More points for 6 total
Player B vs Player C = Player B wins for 6 points total

3 way tie?? enter it into the computer and see who wins. Basically the standings are pointless going into the 3rd round since every time the computer comes up with
Player A = computer gives 9 points Actually he has 6 points
Player D = computer gives 4 Points Actually he has 6 points
Player B = computer gives 3 points Actually he has 6 points
Player C = 0 points

Why is this? This is not fair since Player A who was undefeated going into round 3 lost to Player D who only lost to player B during round one. This makes the Final round worth nothing without playoffs. what we had to do is a top 2 cut and player A and D replay for First while Player B wins 3rd. Basically, since the new system came out we have had nothing but issues.

[LordxMugen]

Ok if you have 4 people here is what happens :

A plays B B wins

C plays D D wins

B plays D D wins

C plays A A wins

So D is undefeated C is last place with no wins and then tie breakers will determine A and B you dont need 3 rounds . If the tie breakers aren't doing their job then the software need to be updated to determine tie breakers better.
actually you do have to have a 3rd round because A still has yet to play D and C hasnt played B. you still have to have a 3rd round cause the game is based on swiss rounds and EVERYONE MUST PLAY EVERYONE, no matter standings. thats why you have a cut to top 2 or 4 (in this case a top 2). you cant have single elim till the playoffs so youd end up doing a 4 round game. so everyone plays everyone, and then a 4th between the best 2 players and then the tourney is over. and thats how we found out how the system works.

[scubadude]

actually you do have to have a 3rd round because A still has yet to play D and C hasnt played B. you still have to have a 3rd round cause the game is based on swiss rounds and EVERYONE MUST PLAY EVERYONE, no matter standings. thats why you have a cut to top 2 or 4 (in this case a top 2). you cant have single elim till the playoffs so youd end up doing a 4 round game. so everyone plays everyone, and then a 4th between the best 2 players and then the tourney is over. and thats how we found out how the system works.

What your talking about is a round robin style not swiss that is only in effect with 3 people. And by that logic your saying at WMAT everyone has too play everyone do you know how long that would take ...... Swiss is a format that its not elimination but its not round robin either you play until there someone with more wins with the amount of people then anyone else . So with 4 people once again when x player hits 2 wins why would you penalize them too play another round when them already beat the third and and 2nd place player.

[LordxMugen]

What your talking about is a round robin style not swiss that is only in effect with 3 people. And by that logic your saying at WMAT everyone has too play everyone do you know how long that would take ...... Swiss is a format that its not elimination but its not round robin either you play until there someone with more wins with the amount of people then anyone else . So with 4 people once again when x player hits 2 wins why would you penalize them too play another round when them already beat the third and and 2nd place player. i dunno why i said everyone has to play everyone. but in the tourney manual it DOES say if you have 4 people, that you MUST do a 3 round game. it doesnt say to cut to top 2 (which it should) but with the system you HAVE to do it. whereas if you have 8 people, you do 4 before you cut. its just the way it is. in the TO guide it tells you if have X amount of people you do Y amount of rounds then you have to cut to top 2 or 4 depending on how many there are.

[swordmaster]

Seriously it does say top cut in the TO guide I thought it didn't?

[swordmaster]

In the tournament guide it says:

Round Robin style may be used instead of Swiss if there are 4-5 players in an
event.

Only at high level Premier events will it be necessary to make a “Top Cut” based
on the number of participants, and play an additional day using Single
Elimination. Single elimination rounds are also played as best two of three
and only the winners move to the next round. This is only used for final
elimination after Swiss rounds and only in larger events with more than 32
players.

For Round Robin
Tie-breaker 1. Head-to-head record:
Only use results from the matches among the tied players to determine the
winner.

Tie-breaker 2. Fewest game losses:
For each player who is still tied, count the total number of individual game losses
(include all matches played.) The winner is whoever has the fewest number of
game losses (not match losses.)

Tie-breaker 3. Most game wins:
For each player who is still tied, count the total number of individual game wins
(include all matches played.) The winner is whoever has the most number of
game wins (not match wins.)

Tie-breaker 4. Random:
If there is still a tie, determine the winner randomly among the tied players.

For swiss
Tie-breaker 1: (TB1) Strength of Schedule:
The Match Points (MP) of each of the tied players’ opponents is totaled. If this
result in a tie, move to the second Tie-breaker.

Tie-breaker 2. (TB2) Strength of Opponent's Schedule:
The Match Points of each of the players’ opponent’s opponents are totaled. If
this results in a tie, move to tie-breaker three.

Tie-breaker 3. (TB3) Sum of Rounds Lost Squared:
Square the rounds each player lost in and total them together.
(Example Player A lost in rounds 4 and 5, Player B lost in Rounds 1 and 2.
Player A’ sTB3 total would be 41 (16 + 25). Player B’s TB3 total would be 5 (1 +
4).

Under swiss this is what should happen given my previous statement
Player A, B, and D are tied
If Their Match points say are all tied then it goes to tie breaker 2

Player A's opponents had a total score of 6
Player B's Opponents had a total score of 6
Player C's opponents had a total score of 6
* IF your opponent was a bi does this just not count???

So it goes to the final tie breaker
Player A lost in round 3
Player B lost in round 1
Player D lost in round 2

Player A squared total is 9, Player B's Squared total is 1, Player D squared total is 4... So who wins it does not say the person who lost in the latest rounds or the person that lost in the earliest? Cause I think the person who lost in the latest rounds should lose but that is me.

[scubadude]

Well I run regional events for UFS and never had the problem in the number we have done maybe our tie breaker system works better I dont know . But our system has been this .

4 people =2 rounds

6-8 =3 rounds

10-16= 4 rounds

16-24 4 rounds with a top 8 cut

28-40 5 rounds with top 8

50-64 6 rounds top 8 cut

over that 7 rounds with a top 16 cut .

[swordmaster]

idk does 2 rounds cut it? I mean that is kinda short. Basically if you lose once your out. Even in 2 rounds though there can be a tie right... no not really winner of the first match plays winner of the other first match game. yeah that would work but there would be no way to come back, if you lose then your looking at 3rd place max. The other issue is 5 people. That bi screws everything up. You would have to run 3 matches then or it would not be fair to whoever gets the bi. I really would like bandai to clarify their rules on this cause the new rules are messing with people.

[scubadude]

idk does 2 rounds cut it? I mean that is kinda short. Basically if you lose once your out. Even in 2 rounds though there can be a tie right... no not really winner of the first match plays winner of the other first match game. yeah that would work but there would be no way to come back, if you lose then your looking at 3rd place max. The other issue is 5 people. That bi screws everything up. You would have to run 3 matches then or it would not be fair to whoever gets the bi. I really would like bandai to clarify their rules on this cause the new rules are messing with people.

Ya if its 5 people you do 3 rounds .

[BalanceBJJ]

I don't have accesses to the tournament software but the store owner basically said she couldn't force another round and we were basically stuck.

The tie breakers for RR and Swiss however yield entirely different results. Under Swiss player C wins entirely on the basis of having played more rounds as opposed to having a bye. Under the Round Robin tie breakers, player B would have won by virtue of only losing two games in the round played.

That's not a working system