DB Vs Naruto Rules?

[Bibbo]

Anybody know where they went? They were in the organized board but i can't find them anymore... are they being updated?

[soviet prince]

I think you can still get them in the mejin board

[Evil Jim]

Naw, they have all been taken down.

[CaMeRoN]

Wow good thing I printed it out lol..

[Snow]

Are they still up on the Naruto boards?

[wildfire194]

I wonder why they were removed? I agree with CaMaRoN, good thing I saved it to my computer :D

[paulsmits3950]

Hello

Can someone post the rules for DBZ vs Naruto? Since you said you saved it on your computer.

[wildfire194]

Hello

Can someone post the rules for DBZ vs Naruto? Since you said you saved it on your computer.

i'll try tomorrow... its on my computer at home

[paulsmits3950]

Thanks Cameron and the Cyber realm gaming for the rulings.

I think it is unfair that naruto restriction but its for the best. The Chosen is a reprint set. So that means there are powerful cards from the 1-5 sets that are powerful and not banned. Name a few Kabuto (CO), Naruto (COP), 8 Trigram, and plenty more.

Also are promos legal?

[wildfire194]

Thanks Cameron and the Cyber realm gaming for the rulings.

I think it is unfair that naruto restriction but its for the best. The Chosen is a reprint set. So that means there are powerful cards from the 1-5 sets that are powerful and not banned. Name a few Kabuto (CO), Naruto (COP), 8 Trigram, and plenty more.

Also are promos legal?

only those released after set 9 I think

[swordmaster]

only those released after set 9 I think

yeah wildfire, but are reprints legal?

[wildfire194]

yeah wildfire, but are reprints legal?

I'm not sure... I will have to check. I know that the reprints that are in Set 9 are ilegal though.

[swordmaster]

nice those are the main one i wanted to know about that means my deck is legal. What is the whole mess about no cards with genin, or that say genin or that require genin.... or something like that?

[wildfire194]

nice those are the main one i wanted to know about that means my deck is legal. What is the whole mess about no cards with genin, or that say genin or that require genin.... or something like that?

I don't know, I think I missed that part of the rules. I know that Dragonball's Plunder ability doesn't work since Naruto doesn't collect DB coins. Also, Mental battles can't happen and effects that effect Mental power don't work either on DB warriors.

[SSJ Puar]

Naruto got the short end of the stick. Anything good from Chosen, Lol, and AW are banned.

[wildfire194]

Naruto got the short end of the stick. Anything good from Chosen, Lol, and AW are banned.

Bandai did it only because Naruto has 11 sets over Dragonball's 3... That is why only the last 3 sets of Naruto are avaliable. They said that as more Dragonball sets become available the more Naruto sets will become legal.

[swordmaster]

well if reprints are legal, I can think of a few cards I would play. chidori the good one. Naruto vs sasuke. 8 trigrams 64 palms. double dynamic entry is like a super bounce. DBZ could not really handle that.

[wildfire194]

well if reprints are legal, I can think of a few cards I would play. chidori the good one. Naruto vs sasuke. 8 trigrams 64 palms. double dynamic entry is like a super bounce. DBZ could not really handle that.

This is just my opinion so it doesn't hold any ground but I think what they meant is all cards that aren't listed as Promos from set 9,10 and 11 will be banned during Dragonball VS Naruto. This may also be the reason that they removed the rules from the site since they were writing up 3 weeks ago. We'll just have to wait until a mod comes in here and has something to add.

[CaMeRoN]

You can still view the PDF.. They just took down the topic here.. You can view the rules here ^.^

http://cyberrealmsgaming.com/index.php?showtopic=5519

[SSJ Puar]

Bandai did it only because Naruto has 11 sets over Dragonball's 3... That is why only the last 3 sets of Naruto are avaliable. They said that as more Dragonball sets become available the more Naruto sets will become legal.

I understand the fairness of last 3 sets, however almsot everything good from those last 3 sets is banned...

[Zero]

I understand the fairness of last 3 sets, however almsot everything good from those last 3 sets is banned...

In comparison to DB, cards like lightning blade and the OC ninjas are just too good. Naruto still has powerful ninja effects and damage jutsus (Such as fireball and 8 inner gates) which hopefully will make it an even match with Dragon balls Big warriors. If you are unable to come up with an obvious best deck to play for Vs. format, then the format was made well.

I don't know why the list was taken down, but with all the crazy stuff happening at bandai, it wouldn't surprise me if we don't get them back for awhile.

[Snow]

No, reprints are not legal. Dragonball Radio did yesterday's episode on this topic, you all can listen to it tomorrow.

[CaMeRoN]

Well at least we have a copy of the rules so we can play with Pseudo rules until they re-release the official ones.

Did you get any insider information about the Vs stuff Snow? :o

[Snow]

As always.

[CaMeRoN]

As always.

Sweet :) You guys should have Zero on since he created the rules.

[majingogeta344]

I hope they fix them. They were totally one-sided. Dragonball should always win.

To me there was no reason to ban OCs (or at least both Naruto and Sasuke). Dragonball is pretty much all pumps anyway.

[Snow]

Sweet :) You guys should have Zero on since he created the rules.

So now we know who to blame. We've already done our episode, and have guests lined up for the next two months. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[Zero]

DB will always beat Naruto? This sounds like Ari logic :O

If DB can beat naruto, I did my job. DB was at a huge disadvantage even after we pushed the block format at 3 sets, so it was very much necessary to kick down the power toward DBs level. Naruto's draw, Powerful Ninja effects, and Jutsus strength greatly outweigh Dragonball's "big guys" and overcosted techiques. as some one who plays both games (Unlike you snow), this was easy to pin point as a major issue. In fact the tester I worked with and the person we sent our stuff to agreed fully on majority of the changes made.

For those of you who say DB will win every time, Imagine if Itachi Goal was left off the list. Not so pretty, eh? I saw someone say the OCs should be left on. Really? The cards that dominate todays STANDARD naruto need to be left on? Both characters are over stat, even for DB, and still have access to cards that DB cannot deal with (Shuriken Rasengan combo for one). Lets not forget that with emina, you would also have a solid draw engine as well.

I'm not claiming this list is perfect, this is the first list after all. As stated in the list we intend to change it up every set. this way we can add any new cards, and make any changes to the list needed to balance the format. If one game does win 99% of the time like some of you are claiming, then with the release of Destructive fury, we will look to buff the other so the playing field will be more even.

[HaKuYoU]

So now we know who to blame. We've already done our episode, and have guests lined up for the next two months. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
What do you mean who to blame, the rules are not perfect but I think they are pretty good, and you shouldn't be bashing him for going out of his way to make a set of crossover rules for all of us. I personally want to thank you for your efforts zero, and I'm sure you will iron out and inconsistencies that occur and help perfect the rules.

[swordmaster]

well, I will have to try it, but if all this effort is being made to keep the two games balanced then hey can't be all bad. I agree the ocs would dominate DBZ hand over fist. hell they dominate everything else, you couldn't even stomping them. I think since so many ppl wanna play that its great you guys are testing out the rules for each set. Thats work you would not normally be doing for us which is awesome.

[SSJ Puar]

DB will always beat Naruto? This sounds like Ari logic :O

If DB can beat naruto, I did my job. DB was at a huge disadvantage even after we pushed the block format at 3 sets, so it was very much necessary to kick down the power toward DBs level. Naruto's draw, Powerful Ninja effects, and Jutsus strength greatly outweigh Dragonball's "big guys" and overcosted techiques. as some one who plays both games (Unlike you snow), this was easy to pin point as a major issue. In fact the tester I worked with and the person we sent our stuff to agreed fully on majority of the changes made.

For those of you who say DB will win every time, Imagine if Itachi Goal was left off the list. Not so pretty, eh? I saw someone say the OCs should be left on. Really? The cards that dominate todays STANDARD naruto need to be left on? Both characters are over stat, even for DB, and still have access to cards that DB cannot deal with (Shuriken Rasengan combo for one). Lets not forget that with emina, you would also have a solid draw engine as well.

I'm not claiming this list is perfect, this is the first list after all. As stated in the list we intend to change it up every set. this way we can add any new cards, and make any changes to the list needed to balance the format. If one game does win 99% of the time like some of you are claiming, then with the release of Destructive fury, we will look to buff the other so the playing field will be more even.

Sorry if I made it sound like I was ungrateful Zero. Yes I agree, if DB can beat Naruto you did a trememdous job. Of course noones analysis of this will be as accurate as yours since you have already play tested this and worked on it for quite a while I would assume.

[CaMeRoN]

No kidding. Thanks to all the playtesters and Zero for putting together these rules. When I first heard about a crossover format I wasn't looking forward to it. However, upon seeing these rules my opinion has changed completely. I am looking forward to collecting the Naruto CCG again and playing with these new rules! Kudos guys :cool:

[Snow]

What do you mean who to blame, the rules are not perfect but I think they are pretty good, and you shouldn't be bashing him for going out of his way to make a set of crossover rules for all of us. I personally want to thank you for your efforts zero, and I'm sure you will iron out and inconsistencies that occur and help perfect the rules.

Lol, it was a joke. I wouldn't have had an episode on the rules if I thought they were so terrible that they needed an immediate fix. I haven't played much Naruto, but just on the comparison, Naruto has had 11 sets to get things smoothed out and perfect for players, while DB only 3 now. I think it was really ingenious of the playtesters and Zero to not only cut down the set that were being released, but even take out the broken mechanics to give Dragonball players a fighting chance.

The only sad thing I see, is will that many Naruto players play? Not that I don't think Naruto will win, but I don't see heavy Naruto players wanting to change their entire deck to remove all these restricted and removed sets just to play Dragonball. I agree it HAD to be done, it's just sad that it had to be done, and neither Zero nor anyone else could control that.

Like, I have my Dragonball deck to play against other DB players, and I can take that to play a Naruto deck. However, Naruto players have to cut out what is probably a large portion of their deck/ make an entirely new deck, just to be able to legally play DB. That seems to be the worst part of it for me, is giving Naruto players INCENTIVE to play Dragonball players.

Hopefully Bandai gives them awesome prize support.

[Evil Jim]

If a naruto player would want to play in this format, they would not take stuff out of there deck. They would have to make a totally new deck for this format.

[CaMeRoN]

On the positive end of the spectrum, this format allows people to get into the Naruto CCG without going back and buying 11 sets of product. Players can buy sets 9,10, and 11 and use those sets in competitive tournaments against DragonBall CCG decks.

[majingogeta344]

I saw someone say the OCs should be left on. Really? The cards that dominate todays STANDARD naruto need to be left on? Both characters are over stat, even for DB, and still have access to cards that DB cannot deal with (Shuriken Rasengan combo for one). Lets not forget that with emina, you would also have a solid draw engine as well.



DB can't do anything about Shuriken/Rasengan combo, anyways, as there is no negation. Most everything in DB is a pump.

I'm not claiming this list is perfect, this is the first list after all. As stated in the list we intend to change it up every set. this way we can add any new cards, and make any changes to the list needed to balance the format. If one game does win 99% of the time like some of you are claiming, then with the release of Destructive fury, we will look to buff the other so the playing field will be more even.

Well these rules will pretty much be first used when DF comes out, so Naruto will be at an even bigger disadvantage.

[Zero]

DB can't do anything about Shuriken/Rasengan combo, anyways, as there is no negation. Most everything in DB is a pump.
Roar would like a word with you. Evil Containment wave wouldn't hit an OC ninja, as well as several other cards that could potentially stop a jutsu. This is one of the reasons why it was obvious OC ninjas had to go.

Well these rules will pretty much be first used when DF comes out, so Naruto will be at an even bigger disadvantage.
I'll reiterate that this list will change with each set release. That means when DF comes out, its not going to be legal for vs rules until the updated List is posted. The same goes for set 12 of Naruto, which is scheduled to release around them same time.

I'm not sure why you think DB has an advantage over naruto, but to some degree I hope you are right. Being at a slight disadvantage will push players to work harder when making decks, and to be more aware when playing not to make any mistakes.

[majingogeta344]

Roar would like a word with you. Evil Containment wave wouldn't hit an OC ninja, as well as several other cards that could potentially stop a jutsu. This is one of the reasons why it was obvious OC ninjas had to go.


Roar is the only card in the game that can stop it and it costs alot of chi to do it. Additionally Roar, I believe, is T5 which is after Naruto can come out and thus after Rasen-Shuriken can be used.


I'm not sure why you think DB has an advantage over naruto, but to some degree I hope you are right. Being at a slight disadvantage will push players to work harder when making decks, and to be more aware when playing not to make any mistakes.
All of the things that make decks in Naruto good, are gone. By good I mena competitive not broken. The Naruto's in the last 3 sets were bad, forcing you to run the T3 one. Almost every thing in early game is gone and the remaining jutsu and missions, after the forbidden list, are extremely subpar to DB's techs and events.

I hope that you can help me realize why Naruto would stand a chance against a competitive DB deck.

BTW: I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want these tournaments to be fair. I'm glad that we have this new format for playing and something to do with our "bad in Naruto" Naruto cards.

[Zero]

All of the things that make decks in Naruto good, are gone. By good I mena competitive not broken.
A card is only good for competitive play based on the format. Before AW, post errata Temari VT was absolute junk. I think you need to look closer and you may find some new gems.

The Naruto's in the last 3 sets were bad, forcing you to run the T3 one.
http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=11&c=n452
Seems pretty good in Vs format to me.

Almost every thing in early game is gone and the remaining jutsu and missions, after the forbidden list, are extremely subpar to DB's techs and events.
Naruto still has Choji SotP, The naruto I listed, Sumaro, Several sasukes. Early game shouldnt be an issue. As for missions, Drifting, Secret activities, Temporizing threat, wanted poster, and quite a few others are there to use, not to mention tutor cards like Abandonment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but DB doesn't have much draw power, or any efficient tutor cards, right?

As I've said above, if you look closer you may find some gems. Ive just given you a whole bunch of playable cards to use, so please throw away any preconcieved notions on how unbalanced this format is and start making decks!

[majingogeta344]

A card is only good for competitive play based on the format. Before AW, post errata Temari VT was absolute junk. I think you need to look closer and you may find some new gems.


http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=11&c=n452
Seems pretty good in Vs format to me.


Naruto still has Choji SotP, The naruto I listed, Sumaro, Several sasukes. Early game shouldnt be an issue. As for missions, Drifting, Secret activities, Temporizing threat, wanted poster, and quite a few others are there to use, not to mention tutor cards like Abandonment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but DB doesn't have much draw power, or any efficient tutor cards, right?

As I've said above, if you look closer you may find some gems. Ive just given you a whole bunch of playable cards to use, so please throw away any preconcieved notions on how unbalanced this format is and start making decks!

Now I'm starting to understand that you have to make a deck with the mindset that you aren't playing Naruto or DB. The cards would work differently and be better against cards from DB.

[soviet prince]

So now we know who to blame. We've already done our episode, and have guests lined up for the next two months. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

how to blame, from what I read it was done well, stop all the bashing zero did not have to do that. You need to drop down a few levels and stop getting on everybody like you know more then they do.

If you did not mean it that way explain yourself because it seemed like it from my perspective.

[theyellowdart]

i only play db, not naruto. but i think it would be a fun new challenge to play against other cards besides db ones. i'm willing to give it a try.

[Snow]

how to blame, from what I read it was done well, stop all the bashing zero did not have to do that. You need to drop down a few levels and stop getting on everybody like you know more then they do.

If you did not mean it that way explain yourself because it seemed like it from my perspective.

I explained myself on the page before ^^ sorry if you skipped over it. Have a great day.

[soviet prince]

I explained myself on the page before ^^ sorry if you skipped over it. Have a great day.
well I apoligize I did not read it, it my fault and I can admit when I made a mistake.

[CaMeRoN]

Now I'm starting to understand that you have to make a deck with the mindset that you aren't playing Naruto or DB. The cards would work differently and be better against cards from DB.

Yes, they do. Keep in mind that you will also have Naruto vs Naruto and DB vs DB match-ups with the current restrictions.

[majingogeta344]

Yes, they do. Keep in mind that you will also have Naruto vs Naruto and DB vs DB match-ups with the current restrictions.

Seriously? Where'd you hear that?

[CaMeRoN]

Seriously? Where'd you hear that?

Think about it. If your going to have a crossover tournament everyone isn't going to have 2 decks. How would people decide who gets to use DB and who doesn't? It isn't a team thing. It's not liek, "The people on the left are using DB decks and hte people on the right are using Naruto decks.". People aren't divided like that. If that's how it was and you could only play Naruto vs DB then what would happen if the finalists both had DB decks?

[majingogeta344]

Think about it. If your going to have a crossover tournament everyone isn't going to have 2 decks. How would people decide who gets to use DB and who doesn't? It isn't a team thing. It's not liek, "The people on the left are using DB decks and hte people on the right are using Naruto decks.". People aren't divided like that. If that's how it was and you could only play Naruto vs DB then what would happen if the finalists both had DB decks?

But then everyone who goes to play a Naruto or DB tournament, and there is also a DBvsN tournament, will bring a DB deck as you don't have to makea seperate deck.

[Zero]

Just a little bit of insight from my end. The issue of "What happens if 2 people play each other with DB or with Naruto?" Came up. Originally we were thinking that each player could bring a DB AND a Naruto deck. When you sat down with your opponent you would die roll. The winner of the die roll would either chose to go first, or Choose which deck he would play. So if I won the die roll, an dI chose DB, you would have to use Naruto, but you would get to go first.

Obviously this didn't go through, and in retrospect I realize how much confusion it could cause, as well as how annoying it could be (writing 2 deck lists FTL). As it stands there will be Naruto V Naruto and Dragonball V Dragon ball, though I'm sure they will pair up people of the opposite games as best as they can. All this means is that you have to work harder to make sure you are comfortable with your decks ability, and that you have answers for whatever you might come across.

[majingogeta344]

Just a little bit of insight from my end. The issue of "What happens if 2 people play each other with DB or with Naruto?" Came up. Originally we were thinking that each player could bring a DB AND a Naruto deck. When you sat down with your opponent you would die roll. The winner of the die roll would either chose to go first, or Choose which deck he would play. So if I won the die roll, an dI chose DB, you would have to use Naruto, but you would get to go first.

Obviously this didn't go through, and in retrospect I realize how much confusion it could cause, as well as how annoying it could be (writing 2 deck lists FTL). As it stands there will be Naruto V Naruto and Dragonball V Dragon ball, though I'm sure they will pair up people of the opposite games as best as they can. All this means is that you have to work harder to make sure you are comfortable with your decks ability, and that you have answers for whatever you might come across.

I see. Hopefully they won't actually run the tournament if 95% of people who show up have DB decks.

[Snow]

Zero, I have a question. Are these tournaments going to be on a local level? Or just at large events like Gencon? Like, can I go to my local store and expect the tournaments to be (for example) Friday: DB, Saturday: Naruto, Sunday: DB VS Naruto?

Also, do you have any idea on if there will be separate, or special, prize support for Dragonball vs. Naruto? I was just curious.

[soviet prince]

I think I heard only on bigger events

[CaMeRoN]

I think I heard only on bigger events

Yeah, I would imagine only bigger events. They'll probably get cosplay involved as well.

[HaKuYoU]

Yeah, I would imagine only bigger events. They'll probably get cosplay involved as well.

OOOOOO I wanna cosplay as Sakura.. BELIEVE IT!

[theyellowdart]

I will cosplay as puar! Okay, not really.

[scubadude]

Well my mejin brought it up to me since im one of the few db players that doesnt play naruto . I said I would give it a shot so some time in feb we are going to give it a shot .

[texans07]

Prize support for DB vs Naruto Crossover would be given at higher level Convention type tournaments.

As it currently is, there could be Naruto vs Naruto, DB vs DB , and of course DB vs Naruto at Crossover tournamnets; that being said prizes would be distributed to the top DB deck, top Naruto deck, and then to the winner of the tournemnt itself. So for example 40 Naruto decks & 1 DB deck then that DB deck would fetch top prize (I hop ethat dosen't happen but its an example :D).

Those that worked on the Crossover Rules were myself and Andrew (Zero) so if you have any questions/ conserns/ comments feel free to ask either one of us.

As Andrew stated a few post back, the list will change with each new tournament Kit (approx. every 2 months) if at all. These changes would primarily be to the Restriction list.

P.S: Super Heal Warriors would love it if you use Shuriken on them. :p

[Zero]

As it currently is, there could be Naruto vs Naruto, DB vs DB , and of course DB vs Naruto at Crossover tournamnets; that being said prizes would be distributed to the top DB deck, top Naruto deck, and then to the winner of the tournemnt itself. So for example 40 Naruto decks & 1 DB deck then that DB deck would fetch top prize (I hop ethat dosen't happen but its an example :D).



Is james doing some kind of Special prizing? I figured he would do some uncut sheets and such, but if he has something special planned, that would probably attract more players.

[Makeshift Ghost]

I got 1 question.
Where are the rules posted for the DB vs. Naruto.

[soviet prince]

I think that maybe there needs to be a way for a mejin to schedule these as well, it would be a good way to convert some naruto players

[Snow]

You can always run unsanctioned tournaments, nothing wrong with that.

[CaMeRoN]

I got 1 question.
Where are the rules posted for the DB vs. Naruto.

They were taken down from the Bandai site for some reason. I have them up here though.

http://cyberrealmsgaming.com/index.php?showtopic=5519

[scubadude]

So are we not going to have the opportunity to run a sanctioned naruto v.s. DB event then locally.

[texans07]

So are we not going to have the opportunity to run a sanctioned naruto v.s. DB event then locally.

That remains to be seen, we are still working out the kinks in how tournaments on the local level will occur.

As for prizing, uncut sheets, complete DB/ Naruto Sets, electronic prizing, are all fair game at Convention size tournamnets. As these type of tournament approaches they will be posted.

[Zero]

That remains to be seen, we are still working out the kinks in how tournaments on the local level will occur.

As for prizing, uncut sheets, complete DB/ Naruto Sets, electronic prizing, are all fair game at Convention size tournamnets. As these type of tournament approaches they will be posted.

:O

Ummm, Am I allowed to play in those events? Or is it going to be considered having an unfair advantage >.>

[Zero]

also ban Journey of Adventure its no fun losing if you get outlasted
But journey is a problem in DB. I mean you can put them back faster than you draw. It should be Attacker|Strategy. Then it would be fine.

I don't understand how it's a problem. A "Problem" card is one that is over powering in the format, and is generally a deciding factor in the outcome of the match. In Magic, hitting an early bitter blossom generally means that you win the game. In naruto, Resolving a Pre errata Inherits giving you a fresh hand, would generally give you the game. In Dragonball, hitting a Journey means that you don't lose to deck out and will eventually redraw the cards you have already played.

When you drop your journey, or when another player drops a journey does it generally decide the game? Does every deck play regardless of color play 3 Journeys? If you have overwhelming board presence, does a top decked journey allow your opponent to turn the tables with minimal effort, despite his losing position?

The answer to all of these questions should be no. With that being said, now imagine a game verse Naruto, where every card nets direct advantage, by either distributing damage, drawing cards, filtering your hand, or pumping up ninjas.

I personally believe journey is a good card, and is used in a lot of dragon ball decks in 1-2 copies to help if the game drags on. However, I don't believe there is any actual "Problem" with the card itself that warrants its removal from this format. Despite my personal beliefs I will keep a close eye on this card. If it proves to be a direct problem in the Naruto vs DB matchup that, it will be put on future ban lists.

[majingogeta344]

I don't understand how it's a problem. A "Problem" card is one that is over powering in the format, and is generally a deciding factor in the outcome of the match. In Magic, hitting an early bitter blossom generally means that you win the game. In naruto, Resolving a Pre errata Inherits giving you a fresh hand, would generally give you the game. In Dragonball, hitting a Journey means that you don't lose to deck out and will eventually redraw the cards you have already played.

When you drop your journey, or when another player drops a journey does it generally decide the game? Does every deck play regardless of color play 3 Journeys? If you have overwhelming board presence, does a top decked journey allow your opponent to turn the tables with minimal effort, despite his losing position?

The answer to all of these questions should be no. With that being said, now imagine a game verse Naruto, where every card nets direct advantage, by either distributing damage, drawing cards, filtering your hand, or pumping up ninjas.

I personally believe journey is a good card, and is used in a lot of dragon ball decks in 1-2 copies to help if the game drags on. However, I don't believe there is any actual "Problem" with the card itself that warrants its removal from this format. Despite my personal beliefs I will keep a close eye on this card. If it proves to be a direct problem in the Naruto vs DB matchup that, it will be put on future ban lists.

Well I'm not talking about in DB v Naruto, but if played late game in DB it can decide the game. You put 2 back for every 1 that you take and you can just stall, especially with cards like Baba.

[Snow]

I've heard not only Dragonball players complain about Journey, but multiple Naruto players complain about a card that can effectively let you live forever. The main argument is that Thrash and Fierce were pretty much made to PREVENT stalling, and Naruto has neither of those effects, especially what few cards were left legal. I can just chump block my way to victory by continuously using Journey.

[HaKuYoU]

I don't understand how it's a problem. A "Problem" card is one that is over powering in the format, and is generally a deciding factor in the outcome of the match. In Magic, hitting an early bitter blossom generally means that you win the game. In naruto, Resolving a Pre errata Inherits giving you a fresh hand, would generally give you the game. In Dragonball, hitting a Journey means that you don't lose to deck out and will eventually redraw the cards you have already played.

When you drop your journey, or when another player drops a journey does it generally decide the game? Does every deck play regardless of color play 3 Journeys? If you have overwhelming board presence, does a top decked journey allow your opponent to turn the tables with minimal effort, despite his losing position?

The answer to all of these questions should be no. With that being said, now imagine a game verse Naruto, where every card nets direct advantage, by either distributing damage, drawing cards, filtering your hand, or pumping up ninjas.

I personally believe journey is a good card, and is used in a lot of dragon ball decks in 1-2 copies to help if the game drags on. However, I don't believe there is any actual "Problem" with the card itself that warrants its removal from this format. Despite my personal beliefs I will keep a close eye on this card. If it proves to be a direct problem in the Naruto vs DB matchup that, it will be put on future ban lists.

all of my decks play a minimum of 2 journey

[CaMeRoN]

Umm guys your not going to deck out unless you miss more than one drop (in which case you've already lost) or you are an extremely defensive player. If your a defensive player then play JoA but for offensive players its not necessary in the slightest (unless you run a lot of draw).

[Snow]

Umm guys your not going to deck out unless you miss more than one drop (in which case you've already lost) or you are an extremely defensive player. If your a defensive player then play JoA but for offensive players its not necessary in the slightest (unless you run a lot of draw).

Now, I do agree with you. However, like I stated, and I think you'll agree, defensive player or not, if your entire venue plays JoA, you probably have to as well, or you can get decked out.

Like I've stated, if Naruto had a Fierce or Thrash element, it'd be much easier to get around, but Naruto has the problem that super has right now. Yeah, you can get a big and strong team with great pumps and damage techs, but I'll just chump with Yajirobe for two turns in a row, then just start chumping left and right and just deck you out with my Journey. Or, even more devastatingly, run a mono earth and then start manipulating adventure battles WHEN I block with my Yajirobe. What? your turn cost is a 1 and mine is a 6? That's too bad.

Also, on that note: Zero, when it COMES to Adventure Battle, if a Naruto player lifts their top card and it is a Jutsu (which have no turn cost) does that count as a zero? If so, they have 15 zeros plus however many T0's they have in their deck? Granted, they can use a tech whenever, but oh well. Or would they just end up drawing like, say I topped a jutsu, would I pull off the top til I ran into a character? That will also prove problematic, because I know if I used Adventure Battle and my opponent had 4 techs in a row, I'd get ****ed when their 5th was like a T7 or something.

[CaMeRoN]

Naruto is at a serious disadvantage when it comes to adventure showdown but they also run a lot of mission cards (who have turn costs) included in those 15. Liek seriously Lone Wolf woudl make it an OV every time.. Though Earth wouldn't be feasible without Adventure Showdown lol..

I don't think you need JoA if everyone else is running it. In a lot of decks I see JoA as a useless card. Liek fine it recycles but it doesn't help you win. All it does is keep you from decking. I would much rather have a devastating technique, or high cost warrior, or devastating event in my hand that will bring me that much closer to victory than play JoA. I would much rather and I think it is way more effective to overwhelm an opponents team than play JoA and stall for a win.

If you are playing Aggro, then the best way to win in this game is by creating multiple big teams. Fine, the opponent can chump block all they want but after a couple turns they will find themselves without a suitable amount of chump blockers. It shouldn't take more than 4 turns of back and forth attacking with multiple teams to get rid of those chump blockers. When that happens your opponent will be forced to break up their big team or take huge amounts of planet damage.

[Snow]

Especially with the number of toughness characters in like an earth deck, you can easily outlast a big team long enough to do some serious damage. Stacking that with like Dende's wish? Yeah, you can be in really good shape.

[Bibbo]

I think that the Db vs. Naruto format works best in draft, but I've never done a DB draft or Naruto but I think that'll be best

[Zero]

Now, I do agree with you. However, like I stated, and I think you'll agree, defensive player or not, if your entire venue plays JoA, you probably have to as well, or you can get decked out.
Be aggressive, be be aggressive!

Seriously though, If someone is actually playing 3 journeys in their deck, decks which pick up a lot of speed early are just going to run over them.

Like I've stated, if Naruto had a Fierce or Thrash element, it'd be much easier to get around, but Naruto has the problem that super has right now. Yeah, you can get a big and strong team with great pumps and damage techs, but I'll just chump with Yajirobe for two turns in a row, then just start chumping left and right and just deck you out with my Journey. Or, even more devastatingly, run a mono earth and then start manipulating adventure battles WHEN I block with my Yajirobe. What? your turn cost is a 1 and mine is a 6? That's too bad.
The fact that you are using yajirobe in an example for anything is just depressingly sad... But besides that, Naruto has ALOT of cards to help it pierce through, that don't see standard play, but could easily be used in this format quite efficiently. To name a few cards:
Moonlight Rasengan (http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=11&c=j346)
4th Hokage (http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=10&c=n371)
Itachi Kisame (http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=10&c=n367)
And those are just a FEW cards that that work well in the format. I know Ari was telling me he built a really strong Star village deck for Vs rules. I think you as well as those other players are extremely underestimating Naruto. As for worrying about Journey, I can only repeat what I've already stated: I will keep an eye on it, and if any "problems" arise due to this card, you will be sure to see it on the next list. Just remember, there are answers (http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/cardlists_detail.php?s=9&c=n313).

Also, on that note: Zero, when it COMES to Adventure Battle, if a Naruto player lifts their top card and it is a Jutsu (which have no turn cost) does that count as a zero? If so, they have 15 zeros plus however many T0's they have in their deck? Granted, they can use a tech whenever, but oh well. Or would they just end up drawing like, say I topped a jutsu, would I pull off the top til I ran into a character? That will also prove problematic, because I know if I used Adventure Battle and my opponent had 4 techs in a row, I'd get ****ed when their 5th was like a T7 or something.
Similarly to Mental power battles, Adventure battles will probably be removed when they come around. Remember, set 3 will not be legal for cross over until the updated document is released.

[theyellowdart]

Similarly to Mental power battles, Adventure battles will probably be removed when they come around. Remember, set 3 will not be legal for cross over until the updated document is released.

That seems fair. :)