Combating Villain

[DBZFan]

Hey everyone, it's DBZFan. Well we all know that villain is going to be top dog this next set, and i want to see what it will take to bring them down. This gives all the complainy pants a chance to see how NOT broken this game is, and how skill is needed to win.

My Combat to the villain deck is....................Great ape deck

Think about it, Great ape is a Super/Rush deck naturally, and it can fill the shoes of some late turns with the apes. And with all the new saiyans coming out, we can see a properly make Great Ape deck bring villain to thier knees.

What are ur ways that u are going to comebat this big guy?

(And stop being such a mister complainy pants about villain everybody!)

[andysouthern]

I was thinking of running something like earth and alien combined... I really want to focus on using absolute fear event just to stop red ribbon army from chump blocking reason for earth because you can daw into cards and charge cards from your hand to pay costly alien techniques that's the only think I can think of yet

[DBZFan]

I was thinking of running something like earth and alien combined... I really want to focus on using absolute fear event just to stop red ribbon army from chump blocking reason for earth because you can daw into cards and charge cards from your hand to pay costly alien techniques that's the only think I can think of yet

That's actually a good idea! stop the low warriors from getting a chance to come out on thier side, and get them with Ur high turn warriors. Thants really good

[theyellowdart]

complainy pants. lol. as long as you can avoid rush from villain, i think you could make a good endgame deck w/ unique, alien, or super that could put up a fight against villain's endgame. even though villain has good techs like four witches and hell flash, we haven't seen all of unique and alien's techs yet. and don't forget super has super kamehameha. so, there are ways to fight villain's seemingly dominant techs. you could probably put up a good fight w/ a dual deck too. super/unique could be a great build. super for rush, and guys like majin buu, the new piccolo, super garlic jr., and ss trunks are all good endgame options for this deck type. imo, you could make a good deck w/ that build that could stand up to villain.

[DBZFan]

I actually think badai is trying to make villain good on purpose, it gives the player a chance to try and "beat the bad guys" it is like good vs evil.......ecept with evil tribe lol.

But i think it is cool, everybody trying to beat the bad guy next set

[BalanceBJJ]

I was thinking of running something like earth and alien combined... I really want to focus on using absolute fear event just to stop red ribbon army from chump blocking reason for earth because you can daw into cards and charge cards from your hand to pay costly alien techniques that's the only think I can think of yet

Go re-read Absolute Power, it only prevents them from attacking.

[swordmaster]

I was thinking of running something like earth and alien combined... I really want to focus on using absolute fear event just to stop red ribbon army from chump blocking reason for earth because you can daw into cards and charge cards from your hand to pay costly alien techniques that's the only think I can think of yet

Yes and it is also too slow, whatever you do against red ribbon you must do before turn 3 when tower goes away and their hand is on the field. The only cards that I see working early enough to make difference against the warriors themselves are:

Ruthless blow (its expensive but will get rid of commander red who if you don't will be doling out most of the team power)
Spirit ball (when they attack with one of your chumps take out the tower)
Emmisson of Aura (Just stop their attacking)
Hostage (works great but it is more villain)
Dodonpa (more villain)
Lone Wolf (forces your opponent to choose his attacks wisely since you can actually contend with his team power)

Unique and earth have little to offer so if you are playing dual unique earth watch out for villain.

[soviet prince]

just kill red, without there engine villian will be weakened and violent abilty will be useless.

[swordmaster]

out of the new set

Tiens tri beam if you are playing lone wolf rush can really hurt them.
A comfortable place - (stop devastating planet damage when you can't block)

[BalanceBJJ]

just kill red, without there engine villian will be weakened and violent abilty will be useless.

wasn't that the strategy with king piccolo? SCR is harder to get to because the little bugger doesn't add as much and thus never comes out

[swordmaster]

i think he is better than king piccolo due to his turn cost.

[DBZFan]

Lone Wolf (forces your opponent to choose his attacks wisely since you can actually contend with his team power)

Unique and earth have little to offer so if you are playing dual unique earth watch out for villain.

Well, lone wolf is only attaccker only.

And remember, even though red is esay to play, doesn't mean he is easy to put in play. I have trouble finding when to put him into play, because villain does have so many good cards, it is hard to know when exactly to put him in play.

[swordmaster]

Attacker only is still decent I mean they can't switch out their teams on their turn they have to be careful.

[scubadude]

Right now I believe there are 2 way to combat villan control or rush .

I know set 3 will change things but for right now here we go .

1. Rush villian does give up until about turn 4 so a super or unique rush can give them problems early . Take advantage of that and remember to OV as much as possible especially early try to force them to block .

2. Control the only resource right now that can match villian late game is alien combing something like final form frieza and super sayian vegeta can be brutal . It will force villian to have a pure android team . 9 times out of 10 a normal battle you wont be able to get OV by villian alone on team power. The part where the OV will come into play is card like energy absorption and 4 witches . So simply plan for it at all times the best way to combat it is when they use it on say 19 use something like gallic gun or death ball which can cause a huge turn . You should at least win the victory and possibly OV . At best fierce 4 will get rid of one of the androids and injure the android 17 or cell 2nd form . The other way in alien is to try to recur stomping and force them take PD or waste chump blockers. With vegeta you can use his ability to take out commander red to even the playing field . Dont forget to use those captured's early once 19 and 20 hit getting chi for it will be difficult .

[Snow]

A mono alien cannot compete because they don't have the buffs. Trust me, for the first month and a half I tried to make Alien work, but it simply doesn't. On top of that, Alien's control only is really really effective for turns 4-6 because then Cell's team of like T4+ is just too expensive to be captured, and stomping isn't that great when facing double Four Witches, even on a team of 19+20 for 10 team power (two 4 witches makes it a 22, so...) Anyways, an Alien/Villain dual is better because you can use the same buffs as Villain.

[BalanceBJJ]

Mono-Villain vs Mono-Alien is gruesome to watch, without pumps you can't hope to win early game battles against them, which means they will plunder every DB you get. You will never keep enough chi to both use control cards on Death Ball with 19 and Premonition.

[DBZFan]

A mono alien cannot compete because they don't have the buffs.

Ah, if u remember Snow, alien just got a buff...............a really bad one :p

[soviet prince]

super holy water is a buff for all elements

[DBZFan]

I know what will beat villain, Mono unique w/out evil tribe. Piccolo+SBC+Pikkon+Thunder Flash= pwned noob villain decks. Especially w/ new piccy jr out

[Ninja Pebble]

I am planning ether a Mono-Earth Adventure deck(I think will take lot of skill to make and play.) or a Earth/Unique Recycle deck(Getting back everything you just used is handy).

[wildfire194]

super holy water is a buff for all elements

true, but Alien needs Alien chi so Super Holy Water is kind of out of place in an Mono-Alien deck.

[The Genre]

Emperor Pilaf's Wish.

[DBZFan]

Emperor Pilaf's Wish.

But the villains have plunder...........

[Raikiribokken]

Ah, if u remember Snow, alien just got a buff...............a really bad one :p

Which was that?

[HaKuYoU]

super saiyan 3 goku..gg

[wildfire194]

Which was that?

South Kai...........

[swordmaster]

I really don't see alien beating villain that no buff thing sucks, when I play my friend I simply know that other then senzu he really is not going to have anything up his sleeve.

I really don't see unique beating villain, even with evil force organized and thunder flash villain is still going not going to be OV'ed and with cards like awakening the evil, four witches, reversal, and absorbtion its definetly not going to get oved. Splash in some senzu and your fine.

I don't see super beating villain. Their warriors do not compair, sure some are decent but villain is their Kryptonite. Goku ssj3 < Androind 19 and 20, Piccolo or trunks < cell 2nd form. Also I can side deck cards that remove Growth coins to end their pumps. finally even if the chips are down I get free chumps ;) so i can rely on pulling out blue late game seperating their team and sending my own with all of their if I win abilities that super has none of and i am back on top.

Don't see earth beating Villain. basically, earth is really good this set but it still only has a limited card pool. Its pumps are also sub par so while it might beat my team strength I can still out do their techs, just have to worry about sleepy boy and cards like that but I can always have backup and resort to chumping if things go wrong. And when they win, they what? Return 2 cards to their deck, I will make up for that in one turn when I get back on top.

[BalanceBJJ]

Unique already deals with the same pumps and does fine

[swordmaster]

Maybe because i have not seen an evil tribe deck in action. Everyone says its really good I kind of see it now but.... well maybe.

[Tek]

I actually see Earth as standing possible ground against Villain. In fact to me, it seems to be that Earth was designed to combat that style, at least in this stage of the game.

What does Earth NOT have a counter for against villain? Four Witches Technique shreds through any team not using Sleepy Boy Technique, an Earth card. Merciless Attack and the new Hell Flash card both require dragonballs, Earth has this amazingly underated card called Accident that will totally annihilate your opponent's plans. If that weren't enough, Microminiturizer gets around both of those cards, plus Reversal, Dodonpa, Powered Gun, etc.

Not to mention that if push comes to shove and you just don't have the Sleepy Boy Technique the turn your opponent busts out two Four Witches Techniques on Android 19, you can always just use Fortuneteller Baba's power to setup your top 3 for an adventure showdown with Making a Deal Behind the Scenes. And, if your lucky enough to score a victory (which you'll have better odds than your opponent thanks to baba) just drop the Overwhelming Difference in Power you'll save in your hand for just that kind of moment. Then, their leader is just outright dead (except for toughness), and now Android 19 with 16 support becomes injured and not a threat the rest of the game.

I really don't see where Earth falters hard against Villain, at least not the spec me and my friends have in mind. A rush early game has a lot of counters too, including a Launch to the Muscle Tower.

I guess we'll just have to see.

Sincerely Yours,
The Legendary Tek

[Ninja Pebble]

I actually see Earth as standing possible ground against Villain. In fact to me, it seems to be that Earth was designed to combat that style, at least in this stage of the game.

What does Earth NOT have a counter for against villain? Four Witches Technique shreds through any team not using Sleepy Boy Technique, an Earth card. Merciless Attack and the new Hell Flash card both require dragonballs, Earth has this amazingly underated card called Accident that will totally annihilate your opponent's plans. If that weren't enough, Microminiturizer gets around both of those cards, plus Reversal, Dodonpa, Powered Gun, etc.

Not to mention that if push comes to shove and you just don't have the Sleepy Boy Technique the turn your opponent busts out two Four Witches Techniques on Android 19, you can always just use Fortuneteller Baba's power to setup your top 3 for an adventure showdown with Making a Deal Behind the Scenes. And, if your lucky enough to score a victory (which you'll have better odds than your opponent thanks to baba) just drop the Overwhelming Difference in Power you'll save in your hand for just that kind of moment. Then, their leader is just outright dead (except for toughness), and now Android 19 with 16 support becomes injured and not a threat the rest of the game.

I really don't see where Earth falters hard against Villain, at least not the spec me and my friends have in mind. A rush early game has a lot of counters too, including a Launch to the Muscle Tower.

I guess we'll just have to see.

Sincerely Yours,
The Legendary Tek
Tek you just pointed out all the stuff I seen in Earth being good against Villain. I too think Earth has the best chance at beating Villain with most likely Unique right be hind them.

I find this funny if true.

Earth is good human vs Villain bad human.
Good vs Bad
So that would mean the most powerful styles are used buy humans...lol
Thats right get owned Namekians, Saiyans, Aliens, this is Earth and we rule here!

[swordmaster]

Well, Tex did already say it went toe to toe in playtesting yes we will have to see.

[DBZFan]

I actually see Earth as standing possible ground against Villain. In fact to me, it seems to be that Earth was designed to combat that style, at least in this stage of the game.

What does Earth NOT have a counter for against villain? Four Witches Technique shreds through any team not using Sleepy Boy Technique, an Earth card. Merciless Attack and the new Hell Flash card both require dragonballs, Earth has this amazingly underated card called Accident that will totally annihilate your opponent's plans. If that weren't enough, Microminiturizer gets around both of those cards, plus Reversal, Dodonpa, Powered Gun, etc.

Not to mention that if push comes to shove and you just don't have the Sleepy Boy Technique the turn your opponent busts out two Four Witches Techniques on Android 19, you can always just use Fortuneteller Baba's power to setup your top 3 for an adventure showdown with Making a Deal Behind the Scenes. And, if your lucky enough to score a victory (which you'll have better odds than your opponent thanks to baba) just drop the Overwhelming Difference in Power you'll save in your hand for just that kind of moment. Then, their leader is just outright dead (except for toughness), and now Android 19 with 16 support becomes injured and not a threat the rest of the game.

I really don't see where Earth falters hard against Villain, at least not the spec me and my friends have in mind. A rush early game has a lot of counters too, including a Launch to the Muscle Tower.

I guess we'll just have to see.

Sincerely Yours,
The Legendary Tek

Yeah, ur right on the money about that! The only thing earth lacks is the variety in higher t6 and up drops. They have 4 diffrent high drops, earth has 2

[theyellowdart]

Yeah, ur right on the money about that! The only thing earth lacks is the variety in higher t6 and up drops. They have 4 diffrent high drops, earth has 2

they'll be getting more, i'm sure. don't forget saiyaman + announcer for draw power. that's another thing earth has going for it.

[HaKuYoU]

I really don't see alien beating villain that no buff thing sucks, when I play my friend I simply know that other then senzu he really is not going to have anything up his sleeve.

I really don't see unique beating villain, even with evil force organized and thunder flash villain is still going not going to be OV'ed and with cards like awakening the evil, four witches, reversal, and absorbtion its definetly not going to get oved. Splash in some senzu and your fine.

I don't see super beating villain. Their warriors do not compair, sure some are decent but villain is their Kryptonite. Goku ssj3 < Androind 19 and 20, Piccolo or trunks < cell 2nd form. Also I can side deck cards that remove Growth coins to end their pumps. finally even if the chips are down I get free chumps ;) so i can rely on pulling out blue late game seperating their team and sending my own with all of their if I win abilities that super has none of and i am back on top.

Don't see earth beating Villain. basically, earth is really good this set but it still only has a limited card pool. Its pumps are also sub par so while it might beat my team strength I can still out do their techs, just have to worry about sleepy boy and cards like that but I can always have backup and resort to chumping if things go wrong. And when they win, they what? Return 2 cards to their deck, I will make up for that in one turn when I get back on top.
yeah theres all that, but my super deck plays invasion ;) also this little card called superkamehameha > than the entire villian deck lol

[swordmaster]

yeah theres all that, but my super deck plays invasion ;) also this little card called superkamehameha > than the entire villian deck lol

the alien card?

Also super kamehameha = not good. Its great if you get it off, but I really don't see it even with invasion, cause you have just played awakened by anger, gohan ssj and probably trunks ssj thats 5 chi in 3 turns, alot of chi, now pay 4?? Don't see it with android 19 in play even with the alien card. also you have to make it to turn 8

[DBZFan]

the alien card?

Also super kamehameha = not good. Its great if you get it off, but I really don't see it even with invasion, cause you have just played awakened by anger, gohan ssj and probably trunks ssj thats 5 chi in 3 turns, alot of chi, now pay 4?? Don't see it with android 19 in play even with the alien card. also you have to make it to turn 8

Unfortunantly, Super needs a chi charging card like invasion of the planet, cause super is really heavy on chi use, like with kamehameha and now the new one. Also, it seems to me that by the time ss3 goku does reachh the field, all the chi has been zapped by either A: deploying him, or B: Useing chi heavyy cards to stay alive long enough to be able to deploy him. I Actually think SS3 goku can't carry super by itself, who else do they have.........ss trucks? Personally, i'm not a fan of the ss trunks, it's injur stats are just horrible.

[BalanceBJJ]

Are you not a Cell fan, his injured stats suck

[swordmaster]

yeah but turn 5 makes all the difference in the world for cell,

You can awaken by anger goku and then drop gohan for a 4 support that is good play but trunks probably won't see a drop until turn 7. that is bad and he is costing me 2 super chi for a 3 support, I really want his effect is all I want from him. on top of that super really has no turn 4 other than trunks for support.

Personally I would rather goku gt turn 4, then awaken by anger him turn 6 for goku ssj or ssj3. Which leaves me wanting turn 5 for a support character I really don't have. Save for gohan. this makes me wanna run ssj3 since gohan supporting him is much better than anything else i can pull.

the perfect super hand is imo:
turn 4
Goku GT
Evolve piccolo to the 7/4
turn 5
Gohan (4 support is 4 support)
turn 6
Trunks ssj.
awaken by anger ssj get trunks effect.

Focus on 1 team and have goku ssj + gohan + piccolo thats a 16 against turn 5 or more trunks on the side to come in if I get hell blasted or something. also it is a 19 the turn ssj goku comes in.

This seems good but look what is in your hand now. goku GT, goku, missing one from awakened, piccolo jr. 4 cards from your hand are junk now from your evolutions so you have 2 left to hold techs. I am just saying it is fragile, if you don't get that perfect hand then it will probably be turn 8 or 9 before you can get them all out.

I am gonna name this problem with mass evolution I dub it Alien syndrome!! :D

This is not without it good parts. If my opponent OVs me say with adventure or 4 witches I am ok. Goku has toughness, gohan is injured piccolo is injured. Piccolo keeps his stats, gohan is still 2 support, trunks takes over until goku is healed..... wow kinda like the show lol.

[Afterburn]

There is no stopping Villain!
Just Run away!
Nah, Super Ape Rush is an excellent counter, and Alien does have things to stop it too, its just missing something...

[swordmaster]

yeah the rest of the characters, techs and events they have not shown lol :P

[BalanceBJJ]

GT Goku is just plain bad

[Bibbo]

GT Goku is just plain bad
I diagree. With the rising number of Super Saiyans that are not Goku [see SS Trunks and Gohan] we can easily have T-6 characters that aren't Goku so you can play the really strong T-4 Goku [GT] and not sacrifice T-6

[BalanceBJJ]

Can you afford to play a warrior that is dependant on you hitting a specific zero drop to even see play? Can you also afford to play a warrior that leaves you 1 less warrior then you would normally have on the field?

His stats aren't enough to say yes to those questions, especially when there are other 4 drops without the risk that have 1 less lead and better support.

[DBZFan]

Can you afford to play a warrior that is dependant on you hitting a specific zero drop to even see play? Can you also afford to play a warrior that leaves you 1 less warrior then you would normally have on the field?

His stats aren't enough to say yes to those questions, especially when there are other 4 drops without the risk that have 1 less lead and better support.

I know that i will use him. I don't have SS goku, and his healthy is only one less than ss goku

[Makeshift Ghost]

I know that i will use him. I don't have SS goku, and his healthy is only one less than ss goku

Buy a SSJ Goku, it will be cheaper now.

[the Joker0122]

Ive been reading so many of the responses thus far about how to specifically combat villain, and I agree with most and disagree with most. Heres my opinion.

First off to me, villain throughout the first two sets was clearly the favored style. So many great pump techs and warriors how could you lose a game? The answer is only to fluke or bad luck.

SCR is like the game changer, without SCR villain would be nothing more than an offensive style, but with SCR it becomes the most devastating style thus far. If his power needed a DB or it wasnt valid my mind would change saying that villain wouldnt be the best style, but since it is neither it simply is far superior than all the other colors.

[the Joker0122]

Now with the release of Destructive Fury, villain got alittle better and everything else will get dramatically better. IMO Earth has now gone from dead last in deck potential to possibly Tied for 1st with villain.

Here are my thoughts on what will wreck a villain deck:

1. Villain needs SCR, without him villain is just like every other deck, beatable.
2. Villain doesnt like to be plundered. Think about it, villain destroys other deck strategies with Androids 19 and 20, and it doesnt hurt to have a DB on Cell 2nd Form. Now with the new Buyon/Emperor Pilaf wall combo, it needs even more DB coins. Take them away and your chances of provailing skyrocket.
3. Villain has no early game (T0-T2/3), Tien and Merc Tow are the only solutions on T3, but they wont be seeing much action now with Colonel Voilent. If you can jump to that early lead without having to use very many techs you will be more prepared when the heavy hitters start coming out. You can set up multiple strong teams and for him to have a chump block just so they dont take PD.

Complaining about villain being the best wont solve anything in your chances of beating it. You need to come up with the strategy that will allow you to overcome its devastating power.

[Raikiribokken]

3. Villain has no early game (T0-T2/3), Tien and Merc Tow are the only solutions on T3, but they wont be seeing much action now with Colonel Voilent. If you can jump to that early lead without having to use very many techs you will be more prepared when the heavy hitters start coming out. You can set up multiple strong teams and for him to have a chump block just so they dont take PD.

Complaining about villain being the best wont solve anything in your chances of beating it. You need to come up with the strategy that will allow you to overcome its devastating power.
freakin LOL!!! Why do you think we now have something called "Villain Rush"? So many early drops for RRA in this set to shut you up make me wanna laugh at this comment!!!:D:D:D

[the Joker0122]

freakin LOL!!! Why do you think we now have something called "Villain Rush"? So many early drops for RRA in this set to shut you up make me wanna laugh at this comment!!!:D:D:D

Oh man... maybe you should think before you speak. How of these so called "early RRA drops" are offensive? Aside from T0 Ninja Murasaki, none of them are offensive. No one but him has a combat value higher than 2, they are all support values. And everyone that I have talked to that runs a villain deck said that Colonel Violet is really the only RRA warrior that will see action and maybe Staff Officer Black. SO where is this "early villain rush" coming from?

[theyellowdart]

Oh man... maybe you should think before you speak. How of these so called "early RRA drops" are offensive? Aside from T0 Ninja Murasaki, none of them are offensive. No one but him has a combat value higher than 2, they are all support values. And everyone that I have talked to that runs a villain deck said that Colonel Violet is really the only RRA warrior that will see action and maybe Staff Officer Black. SO where is this "early villain rush" coming from?

well, the new event muscle tower will help since it lets you drop a low turn warrior when you are the defender. but it uses up chi pretty fast, and it is most effective when you get it out early. so, it's not unbeatable. villain also will have a turn 2 overload w/ general blue, mm, and buyon all at turn 2. so, i agree, it still has weaknesses.

[the Joker0122]

well, the new event muscle tower will help since it lets you drop a low turn warrior when you are the defender. but it uses up chi pretty fast, and it is most effective when you get it out early. so, it's not unbeatable. villain also will have a turn 2 overload w/ general blue, mm, and buyon all at turn 2. so, i agree, it still has weaknesses.

I definately agree, just need to find the strategy that will work and create disruptions for all the elements

[BalanceBJJ]

2. Villain doesnt like to be plundered. Think about it, villain destroys other deck strategies with Androids 19 and 20, and it doesnt hurt to have a DB on Cell 2nd Form. Now with the new Buyon/Emperor Pilaf wall combo, it needs even more DB coins. Take them away and your chances of provailing skyrocket.

Villain is actually much more resistant to plunder then most other deck types, They have most of the early game plunder (and their warrior with plunder aren't exactly weak stat wise), and while some of their warrior have good effects that need DBs those warriors also have typically good stats, and there best techs don't require DBs. Try playing Evil Tribe where often you are forced to not wish in order to keep your KP and you best techs playable.

3. Villain has no early game (T0-T2/3), Tien and Merc Tow are the only solutions on T3, but they wont be seeing much action now with Colonel Voilent. If you can jump to that early lead without having to use very many techs you will be more prepared when the heavy hitters start coming out. You can set up multiple strong teams and for him to have a chump block just so they dont take PD.

That is absolute bull.

Villain can't make a 5 on turn 1 while following their curve, but turn 2 they can make the biggest teams. Major Metal, Violet, SCR is a 9 on turn 2. no other deck can do that, Major Metal by himself with SCR is a 5, and keeps his stats.

Dropping Blue gives you the slightly less impressive total of a 8, which only a few teams can match. Oh and his ability pretty much guarantees you are not getting blocked

Dropping Buyon while worse case scenario means that you can block all day as the only team that can both win the battle and has plunder is the mirror that hit a better t2.

Tien and Tao are not even going to be run next set in all likely hood, the 3 awesome two drops that Villain has access mean they don't need to run 3 drops.

Oh man... maybe you should think before you speak. How of these so called "early RRA drops" are offensive? Aside from T0 Ninja Murasaki, none of them are offensive. No one but him has a combat value higher than 2, they are all support values. And everyone that I have talked to that runs a villain deck said that Colonel Violet is really the only RRA warrior that will see action and maybe Staff Officer Black. SO where is this "early villain rush" coming from?

Seriously? Have you not even taken a look at MM? The highest lead stats of a turn 2? Let me put this out their the most you can possible do turn 0-1 is three PD, at most, after 1 Villain has got some beastly warriors that you are completely over looking. Have you even looked at Muscle Tower?

Your friends are screwing with you

[the Joker0122]

Seriously? Have you not even taken a look at MM? The highest lead stats of a turn 2? Let me put this out their the most you can possible do turn 0-1 is three PD, at most, after 1 Villain has got some beastly warriors that you are completely over looking. Have you even looked at Muscle Tower?

Your friends are screwing with you

Yes Ive taken everything to account, I was talking in the present, not future. The only future thing I talked about was the Buyon/Emperor Pilaf wall combo. So I still proved my point.

[the Joker0122]

Oh I guess I also mentioned some warriors like Colonel Violet, pardon me. And two of my friends are mejins on these boards so yeah apparently they know nothing?

[BalanceBJJ]

So what set are you talking about? You jumped all over the place, and both points 1 and 2 are not even valid this set, and def not valid next.

And yes if your friends say the only RRA chars that are going to get run are Violet and maybe Black then they are not thinking straight, have not seen the previews, or are just joking with you. What would you run instead of Ninja, White, Black, MM, Buyon, and Blue? They are all decent base warriors, and a few are nuts with SCR. What would a Villain deck run instead.

What does being a Mejin have to do with making decent decks?

[Snow]

I think the most appropriate question is why are there three topics all discussing whether or not we think Villain is 'the best'?

[LordxMugen]

I think the most appropriate question is why are there three topics all discussing whether or not we think Villain is 'the best'? been wondering that myself. ill say this though, the villain element has definitely brought the players together, if only to see if they can thwart "The Dark Side".

me, as a villain player, im not gonna refuse these "gifts" bandai has given me to make a deck that is both fun to build as well as play. and if i win a few tourneys cause its good or great even, then so be it. hell, if nothing else, villain cards have given me ideas on different decks that i can build that have little or nothign to do with RRA. whether these are good or not is up to the player playing it and whats fielded now.

[wildfire194]

I think the most appropriate question is why are there three topics all discussing whether or not we think Villain is 'the best'?

the closest thing I can think of is "I want to start a thread...but what should I make it about??? OH, I know, I'll talk about something that everyone else aready knows and pretend like I'm the first to think of it...perfect!"

[JaniGreen]

I'm going to be running mono Earth come set 3. Though I'm running it because I see the raw power in it, it does have several advantages over certain commonly used Villain cards...

Launch > Muscle Tower
Sleepy Boy Technique > Four Witches Technique

Umm...I thought I had more. Well, it's still good darn it! :p Tons of card draw, too...Shien, Hoipoi, Time Machine, Announcer, along with the recursion of Olibu and Great Saiyaman...it looks pretty darn neat.

[BalanceBJJ]

I don't think Launch is a counter for Muscle Tower

Yes she removes it, but if you are dropping her to remove it you are dropping her instead of your 1,2,3 etc, and she doesn't have the stats.

If I was a Villain player and I put out SCR and Violet with Muscle Tower and you dropped Launch on one or two just to remove it I'm licking my chops because you are just behind power wise. You've missed your chance to hit me before my two drop, and my two drop is just going to make me untouchable for a good few turns. Bassically you saved me the chi and still gave me what I was looking for by playing Muscle Tower

[Snow]

Also, since Muscles tower is DEFENDER strategy (which is what makes it not so good ... seriously, I think it's being overrated) so if you drop Launch to destroy the event, your opponent can chain it so that they still get a character out. And the card is really only good to get one or two characters out.

[CaMeRoN]

Also, since Muscles tower is DEFENDER strategy (which is what makes it not so good ... seriously, I think it's being overrated) so if you drop Launch to destroy the event, your opponent can chain it so that they still get a character out. And the card is really only good to get one or two characters out.

I totally agree with you.. Muscle Tower is not as good as it was hyped up to be.. It's use is to throw out SCR and other Red Ribbon guys mid-game so that you can recover from missed drops and tempo.. It's not a reliable rush tactic whatsoever.. Maybe if there was a red ribbon warrior that searched it out for you but otherwise no..

It would be funny if someone used launch on this card lol..

[swordmaster]

I totally agree with you.. Muscle Tower is not as good as it was hyped up to be.. It's use is to throw out SCR and other Red Ribbon guys mid-game so that you can recover from missed drops and tempo.. It's not a reliable rush tactic whatsoever.. Maybe if there was a red ribbon warrior that searched it out for you but otherwise no..

It would be funny if someone used launch on this card lol..

I don't see how this is not rush?? Turn 2 I have 4 warriors if I go first they have 2. Even if you drop launch I can still use the card to get a turn 3 out turn 2, the defense part is just a bonus. The tower can't be turn 0 or you couldn't pay for it anyways. Besides that, there is not a tutor in the game at all so with that logic, lone wolf rush and giant ape rush are not good tech either. I don't understand what you think rush is. I mean stomping is a good tech for rush but dualing is hardly worth it, since alien early game is about stall. King kai is great for rush but he is limited and makes you more vulnerable the next turn.

[Snow]

How often do you really expect to on Turn 1 or 2 have THAT many DIFFERENTLY named warriors turn 2 or less? The odds just aren't that great. You run 3 SCR, 2x 2 other t0s, and between t1-2 maybe 4 different types of warriors. MAYBE 5 different. Unless you're running 2-3 of all of them, that means you probably won't be hitting them frequently enough to merit running this event! And, if you do, there's not much room for endgame at ALL.

On top of that, you'll have to run THREE of this event JUST to HOPEFULLY see it pop into your hand prior to T2. It's only used to replenish warriors or to chump if your opponent captured someone or something like that, it's not this like God event that allows Villain to become this sick rush.

I'd love to play a Villain deck that runs this card and expects it to be the reason they can 'rush'. Villain can have a really good team T2, I'm not arguing that. The consistency of them ALWAYS hitting that rush is slim to nil. Even more so, trying to use this event to surplus their rush is silly, because it won't be hitting that often, and T5 or so, all this event is good for is getting out chump blockers. If you're THAT concerned about a DefenderlStrategy card, you shouldn't be.

[CaMeRoN]

Yeah exactly.. Not to mention that in order to do that you'd need some kind of ridiculous draw engine.. That's the only way it'd be possible to pull it off consistently..

I don't see how this is not rush?? Turn 2 I have 4 warriors if I go first they have 2. Even if you drop launch I can still use the card to get a turn 3 out turn 2, the defense part is just a bonus. The tower can't be turn 0 or you couldn't pay for it anyways. Besides that, there is not a tutor in the game at all so with that logic, lone wolf rush and giant ape rush are not good tech either. I don't understand what you think rush is. I mean stomping is a good tech for rush but dualing is hardly worth it, since alien early game is about stall. King kai is great for rush but he is limited and makes you more vulnerable the next turn.

Well, I didn't say it isn't a rush tactic.. I said it isn't reliable.. I think rush is a deck that is built solely to win the game quickly through aggro. In this game a rush deck attempts to win the game by dealing planet before turn 6-7..

Let's assume you go second (at least that way you get an extra card)..

Turn 0: 7 cards in hand, yOu play a warrior, now have 1 warrior on the field with 6 cards in hand..

Turn 1: 7 cards in hand, you play a warrior, you play muscle tower, now you have 2 warriors on the field with 5 cards in hand.. Opponents turn you play a warrior.. 3 warriors on the field with 4 cards in hand..

Turn 2: 5 cards in hand.. You play a warrior, now you have 4 warriors on the field with 4 cards in hand.. Opponents turn you play a warrior.. 3 cards in with 5 warriors on the field..

Turn 3: 4 cards in hand.. You play a warrior, now you have 6 warriors on the field with 3 cards in hand.. Opponents turn you play a warrior.. 7 warriors on the field with 2 cards in hand..

Turn 4: 3 cards in hand.. Muscle tower goes to chi.. You play a warrior.. You now have 8 warriors on the field with 2 cards in hand..

Final count is 2 cards in hand with 8 warriors on the field on Turn 4..

The assumptions we make when playing this best possible case scenario are;

(1) We are charging 1 chi off the top of our deck every turn
(2) The chi we charge is not a warrior we need to deploy
(3) We are running at least 8 out of the possible 7 existing red ribbon army warriors with a turn cost under 3 or less..
(4) We are drawing into a full 8 warrior curve without the help of a draw engine..
(5) We are drawing into a muscle tower without the help of searchers or a draw engine

The best possible case scenario is awesome because we could play Dende's Wish or Oolong's Wish to level out the hand situation.. However, the assumptions kind of kick the whole idea in the butt.. After reading through the assumptions the odds of doing it all are horrible..

[swordmaster]

How often do you really expect to on Turn 1 or 2 have THAT many DIFFERENTLY named warriors turn 2 or less? The odds just aren't that great. You run 3 SCR, 2x 2 other t0s, and between t1-2 maybe 4 different types of warriors. MAYBE 5 different. Unless you're running 2-3 of all of them, that means you probably won't be hitting them frequently enough to merit running this event! And, if you do, there's not much room for endgame at ALL.

On top of that, you'll have to run THREE of this event JUST to HOPEFULLY see it pop into your hand prior to T2. It's only used to replenish warriors or to chump if your opponent captured someone or something like that, it's not this like God event that allows Villain to become this sick rush.

I'd love to play a Villain deck that runs this card and expects it to be the reason they can 'rush'. Villain can have a really good team T2, I'm not arguing that. The consistency of them ALWAYS hitting that rush is slim to nil. Even more so, trying to use this event to surplus their rush is silly, because it won't be hitting that often, and T5 or so, all this event is good for is getting out chump blockers. If you're THAT concerned about a DefenderlStrategy card, you shouldn't be.

ok yeah the act of hitting this turn 0 - 1 can be slim there is no draw for that early but, I plan on running 15 to 17 turn 0-3 warriors for my rush maximizing my chances for early game strength if i miss the card then i will still dominate turn 2 as your said turn 3 I will continue to win against most decks then i have turn 4 with the androids and cell basically doing everything i can to continue my advantage. i really don't have to worry about curving my warriors if I do hit the card since i can drop turn 3 characters anyways.
your right about one thing it probably would not be great late game by itself; however, if I am dropping extra warriors even on turn 5 and then i OV their main team with one of my techs then things suddenly change. Now i have not only one massive team but several small teams as well. these small teams can rush with my large team, even if they are injured I can lock the advantage and it will be that much harder to recover from the OV. At the same time my key words will be working over time stealing dragon balls as they chump.

CaM the thing about rush that is a disad at times is that it is 100x better when it goes first, but that aside. i probably would not drop the third warrior cause I would not really need to do so. cards in hand are not really an extreme importance to me i am rush so i am banking on winning early game. if it comes to late game then it comes to late game but at that point I hope to top deck cell and an android. the major advantage for muscle tower that I see is dropping tao or buyon before my opponent can deal with it, even if i just use him to form a bigger team instead of rushing it is worth the card.

[Snow]

Unique and Earth have, in my opinion, answers to anything you're talking about. Earth can get an OV if the dual with someone and pull off even the slightest victory. Things like Pure Impulse for Unique make it easy to get rid of any single pesky warrior easily, removal of Unique and Ailen both make keeping these warriors out harder. Getting a Perfect Cell thrown back to your hand after you've put him out surely hurts.

Villain's rush would be better if it DID start T0-T2, but by then you can already have 3 PD and if you "Rush" doesn't go as easily as planned, then things can go sour for you very quickly.

[loolp]

Yes and it is also too slow, whatever you do against red ribbon you must do before turn 3 when tower goes away and their hand is on the field. The only cards that I see working early enough to make difference against the warriors themselves are:

Ruthless blow (its expensive but will get rid of commander red who if you don't will be doling out most of the team power)
Spirit ball (when they attack with one of your chumps take out the tower)
Emmisson of Aura (Just stop their attacking)
Hostage (works great but it is more villain)
Dodonpa (more villain)
Lone Wolf (forces your opponent to choose his attacks wisely since you can actually contend with his team power)

Unique and earth have little to offer so if you are playing dual unique earth watch out for villain.


Lone Wolf only works when your the attacker.

[CaMeRoN]

CaM the thing about rush that is a discard at times is that it is 100x better when it goes first, but that aside. i probably would not drop the third warrior cause I would not really need to do so. cards in hand are not really an extreme importance to me i am rush so i am banking on winning early game. if it comes to late game then it comes to late game but at that point I hope to top deck cell and an android. the major advantage for muscle tower that I see is dropping tao or buyon before my opponent can deal with it, even if i just use him to form a bigger team instead of rushing it is worth the card.

My point wasn't that rush needs to go first or second to win. My point was that regardless of you going first or second, pulling off what you want to do with Muscle tower is extremely difficult. It's not consistent and won't be unless you either stack your deck or have an early game draw engine / searcher.

Cards in hand is always important because those cards are your lifelines. You need to have a couple cards in your hand to charge and to play techniques / events that will win you the game. Your not going to win just by dropping more warriors than the opponent. Those warriors need to be backed up or they won't be out on the field very long.

You can't drop Tao with Muscle Tower because he doesn't have the Red Ribbon Army characteristic.

The way I see Muscle Tower is a card that can save you from a poor early game due to missed drops and can strengthen your mid and late game through tempo. That's the consistent way to use it.

[swordmaster]

My point wasn't that rush needs to go first or second to win. My point was that regardless of you going first or second, pulling off what you want to do with Muscle tower is extremely difficult. It's not consistent and won't be unless you either stack your deck or have an early game draw engine / searcher.

Cards in hand is always important because those cards are your lifelines. You need to have a couple cards in your hand to charge and to play techniques / events that will win you the game. Your not going to win just by dropping more warriors than the opponent. Those warriors need to be backed up or they won't be out on the field very long.

You can't drop Tao with Muscle Tower because he doesn't have the Red Ribbon Army characteristic.

The way I see Muscle Tower is a card that can save you from a poor early game due to missed drops and can strengthen your mid and late game through tempo. That's the consistent way to use it.

Oops ment Metalitron not tao, anyways.

I see tower differently, yeah it is slightly less advantageous because its defender, but if it was turn 2 and attacker I would still use it. I am probably going to use its effects to drop 1 maybe 2 warriors early game yeah but its not like its hurting my deck either. If I only used the card to save me from a poor early game then yeah I could see your point, but the way I see it when i have metalitron and general blue with SCR and one other warrior in play there is no disadvantage. that is 2 teams of 5 strength and one other attacker. not to mention blues effect drops them one blocker. That is rush no matter how you look at it. it also does not hurt me next turn I can just set up with a chump blocker a team of 3 and SCR in play I am set for my turn 3.

[CaMeRoN]

For sure man.. If you have the possibility to take advantage of Muscle Tower early game then you should definitely take that chance. You'll be way ahead of your opponent in terms of planet damage. You can then sit back and draw into what you need or Oolong's Wish or Dende's Wish. I would do what you are saying as well. The only point I was trying to get across earlier is that you shouldn't build your deck around muscle tower because running your deck around one card is very inconsistent. Especially if you don't have a way of searching for it or a draw engine to draw into it. I would even go further to say that running a villain solely as a rush through Muscle Tower will be inconsistent. I think an all-around villain deck that focus' more on the use of Muscle tower during the mid-game will work better. The reason is muscle tower won't be the element of the deck that makes it work. It will be a back drop that increases your chance of victory or even clenches victory.

[theyellowdart]

here's the way i would try to do it. use violet at turn 1. then i can replace the event red ribbon army (currently in most villain decks) w/ the event muscle tower. then just build a villain deck. if i don't hit muscle tower, nbd, i still have 4wt, androids, hell flash, and cell for later. what i'm saying is muscle tower is worth running for most villain decks. however, i'm confident that there will be decks can counter villain. i'm sure there are other players besides me who are thinking of how to counter villain. and i'm sure we will see decks that will beat villain.

[swordmaster]

I agree with dart. But that is also the crazyness of villain this set. They really don't have to change their regular deck very much to be rush and late game.
there are 3 cards in villain that are just top tier and I don't think any of the other styles can touch.

SCR early game +1/+1 combos
Android 19 devastating effect and good stats for turn 4
cell 2nd form amazing stats turn 5
staff officer black amazing ally potential
four witches best reinforcement
Hell flash best restraint
(notice muscle tower is not in here)

these cards are awsome alone but together..... OMG

I agree with Cam to some extent too.
That now, building your deck around one card would be foolish if that card would not grant a win. Muscle tower will give an advantage not a win. This is all true, villain is good rush either way, muscle tower increases that a bit, I never said muscle tower was the best card ever or anything, I think it is good. when used correctly it increases what combos you have because most combos involve Warriors. If that combo is rush then it will increase rush. Only card in villain that I think is still broken is 4 witches due to the multiplication factor.

[BalanceBJJ]

I agree with Snow and Cam that Muscle Tower is getting over hyped, but if you use it smart you can capatalize on certain things.

1. It lets you back drop SCR. If you miss him on zero and don't draw him until 2 or 3 Muscle Tower will let you get him out while keeping up you drops, and boom immediate pump to your field.

2. It really can counter control decks but just letting you get extra blockers out if they throw out a captured stomping combo.

3. If you miss drops you can recover with it

4. If you hit it with certain warriors your opponent might as well scoop. Follow me on this. You go first play SCR, your opponent drops Goku swings you block or whatever, turn 1 you drop Ninja (or Black, etc) put out Muscle Tower swing they take. Thier turn they drop a 2 support and you use Muscle Tower to put out MM, now unless they have pumps they can't swing because MM is a 5 by himself. Your turn you drop Blue and stomp out Goku, you can swing with a 5, 5, and 3. At the very least you are dealing 3 PD with that and destroying his support warrior. He might as well pick up after that

5. If you opponent misses a drop same as above except you don't even need decent warriors just any warriors.

If it was attacker it would be broken, but it still easily run and very powerful you just have to use it sparringly and when you have stuff worth bringing out or just need to get anything out

[soviet prince]

lets let the set come out first before we scream broken, I have experienced many times with past games where a type of deck was hyped but after playtesting it was not as great as everonw thought.

[HaKuYoU]

the alien card?

Also super kamehameha = not good. Its great if you get it off, but I really don't see it even with invasion, cause you have just played awakened by anger, gohan ssj and probably trunks ssj thats 5 chi in 3 turns, alot of chi, now pay 4?? Don't see it with android 19 in play even with the alien card. also you have to make it to turn 8

you would be surprised, think if im playing alien, im playing roar and other goodies, trust me the deck is ridiculous, use the discard 3 planet damage wish and your in business. Then again all the cards have not been previewed yet so you will have to see. lol