Why am I drawn to broken elements?

[Raikiribokken]

As the title says, I am unusually atracted to elements that get way out of control in the future: first with fire in naruto (been playing since coils of the snake) and now with villain (been playing since the beginning). I know it's too early to call anything broken but we all know how things are going... and I never seem to lose with my mono-villain deck.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[Snow]

Having a tier one deck is far from saying it's broken. Broken would be if only a certain Villain build was the very best. Plus, there are other elements that can contend with a Villain deck. They just aren't played, or aren't played well at our venue. And in set 2, there just isn't enough variety of cards for MANY decks to become outrageously good. Yet.

[WolfwoodTheCross]

One day your not going to be able to defend Villian anymore Snow. I hope for the sake of the game that the reason you can't is cause it won't need defending some day.

[swordmaster]

I agree but atm villain is beatable (set 2) I have beaten it though all the games are very close. The general problem I have is that ppl abuse four witches when fighting super, unique or earth decks since they have no fierce or plunder key words and are just walked on as far as that goes.

I disagree with Snow's definition of the word broken though (if I am understanding him correctly), I don't care if there are 200 different villain builds out there. If the only way to win is to play villain, the style is broken. I think fire in naruto is very very very close to breaking the game. There are 3 different builds for fire, and all are first or second tier decks. If it were not for NVS and chain lightning there would be no variety in cards for that game. I pray with all my heart that the new set brings earth and wind back into the game, even water needs help. One more set of fire domination and I will leave naruto.

Back to DBZ though, villain is playing with fire with their tower rush (pun not intended but welcomed). I think that the tower card reminds me of several magic cards out there that the only way to stop them was to hit a removal card that destroyed them early game. Personally I don't want to have to hit a spirit ball in order to deal with early villain rush, I just don't want to have to play that way. As it was before we saw tower, villain was able to create some of the largest teams in the game and now they can rush followed by the largest teams in the game. I just don't see a failure. In addition they have most of the good injure cards that could actually hurt a card like buyon, who with pilaf is an unstoppable defender. The only thing I see beating villain is villain.

[CaMeRoN]

Broken to me is more about whether there are other cards and deck to stop a powerful combo or card from winning consistently. If there is a time where a card or combo is unstoppable due to the restrictions of cards or card pool, then that combo is broken. If someone can't win a large scale tournament with a deck that isn't the "flavor of the set" deck then that deck is overpowered. Also, if everyone is using the same deck with minor changes at large tournaments then there is obviously something wrong with the current set. Maybe its not broken but its overpowered.

Broken essentially means that you can't win without playing with this deck ever.

Most people like winning. I like to win. I don't hate losing but I enjoy winning more than losing. Though I do enjoy playing with my favorite color more than other colors. I think you are just drawn to the idea of winning tournaments. It's easier to do that if you are running the best tier 1 deck possible with the card pool available.

[scubadude]

Broken refers to something undercosted and easy with a game defining effect. The only card I see so far that is like that is 4 witches but we have all had our say one or another about this . But as far as the resource goes I think that every resource when set 3 comes out will have its pros and cons.

[Makeshift Ghost]

Whar bandai needs to do is give every style a counter tech like Roar, then that solves all your problems with 4 witches.
But Villian right now IMO is overpowered, like Sayian in the other DBZ games and fire in Naruto. 4 witches neds to be base value, that way it will be harder to get a OV, the way it was meant to happen, not getting a plus 16, that is stupid, sure you can counter it with roar or sleepy boy, but styles like super and unique don't have counters to that, ECW is attacker (opponent can just use it defending) and afterimage you need major luck or have to splash baba in to make it work. Now with Muscle tower, which isnt as overpowered as 4 witches but still clode to give villian a rush advantage, the reason it isn't really overpowered is that you have to waste chi to use it and if you use it till turn 4, you should have 1-2 chi if you only charged of your deck, which can put your opponent at a disadvantage but not a big one if they have more warrriors on the field than you.
Lastly I would like to say I also have a mono Villian deck but I don't use it cause to me it is very sad to keep playing the same deck over and over just to win, thats why I play with my super heal deck, Unique/Super GC deck, and Alien/Earth deck it just gives you more fun to play and if you happen to win the tourney then it is even better cause you didn't have to use a top tier deck to do it. At my card shop, we all use different decks and the only 2 people play mono villian (my bro uses mine and this one guy uses a villian chi control deck, which is not that bad), we all use some type of different deck, cause we all could be gay and use the same deck (mono Villian) over and over and have a coin flip to is going to win the tourney.

[Snow]

So, I'm so tired of hearing how Villain is nothing but broken, blah blah blah. Run a rush deck this set. Hands down Villain is the WEAKEST type to rush. Don't argue, it's the truth. An Alien/Super rush deck will destroy this deck before it has a chance to get big. Even with General Blue. It's not that big an issue with control. Same goes for next set.

Don't complain about a tower that's defender strategy only and is only effective if you use it ON t2-3. And, those warriors are placed on their own team until the Villain player's next turn. So don't complain, they can't get some wicked omg 4 ppl on the same team that turn. Or any turn. And they'll have to run 3 of that card just for it to become semi-consistant, which I'd not recommend, and if they get it t4+, it's just another chump blocker, not going to get a team big enough to contend with your strongest team, if you're playing correctly, since so many types can get even larger teams now. In addition, Villain next set will be the weakest to Adventure battle, in this rush setup that everyone is afraid of. Most of the good Villain users I know, won't even be running T3 characters, placing a heavier emphasis (6 or so) on T2 characters. That's rediculously weak to the rush. Factor in that them shifting towards an adventure battle deck is much more advantagoues to you than them (losing their T1's and their devastating techs is much worse for them than you, whose techs may not be doing them good at the moment), so it won't hurt you when you shift from whatever theme you usually run to an adventure battle deck while facing a Villain. And the fact that the techs cost any chi make it even easier. Staring down a villain rush isn't so bad when you chump block with a 0 attack and ov them with adventure battle.

So, let's look at how not only simple it is, but inexpensive as well, to counter a Villain deck. Not that Villain won't be tier one, but as it is with every other type, it does have its weakness. And a blatant one at that. So, please, let's stop the complaining. It's not that drastic.

[DBZFan]

So, I'm so tired of hearing how Villain is nothing but broken, blah blah blah. Run a rush deck this set. Hands down Villain is the WEAKEST type to rush. Don't argue, it's the truth. An Alien/Super rush deck will destroy this deck before it has a chance to get big. Even with General Blue. It's not that big an issue with control. Same goes for next set.

Don't complain about a tower that's defender strategy only and is only effective if you use it ON t2-3. And, those warriors are placed on their own team until the Villain player's next turn. So don't complain, they can't get some wicked omg 4 ppl on the same team that turn. Or any turn. And they'll have to run 3 of that card just for it to become semi-consistant, which I'd not recommend, and if they get it t4+, it's just another chump blocker, not going to get a team big enough to contend with your strongest team, if you're playing correctly, since so many types can get even larger teams now. In addition, Villain next set will be the weakest to Adventure battle, in this rush setup that everyone is afraid of. Most of the good Villain users I know, won't even be running T3 characters, placing a heavier emphasis (6 or so) on T2 characters. That's rediculously weak to the rush. Factor in that them shifting towards an adventure battle deck is much more advantagoues to you than them (losing their T1's and their devastating techs is much worse for them than you, whose techs may not be doing them good at the moment), so it won't hurt you when you shift from whatever theme you usually run to an adventure battle deck while facing a Villain. And the fact that the techs cost any chi make it even easier. Staring down a villain rush isn't so bad when you chump block with a 0 attack and ov them with adventure battle.

So, let's look at how not only simple it is, but inexpensive as well, to counter a Villain deck. Not that Villain won't be tier one, but as it is with every other type, it does have its weakness. And a blatant one at that. So, please, let's stop the complaining. It's not that drastic.

What snow says it reallly true. Stop complaining about villain and run a Super/alien rush deck, blue can't touch t2 frieza. And while it may be true that villain is certainly a great deck type right now, we need to look at the dual decks, as they can esially overpower villain early game (New majin vegeta decks anyone? Piccy jr rush, then end it with vegeta >=P)

bUT SERIOUSLY, it seems like every newcomer to the boards complain. Mono unique can kill villain IMO now with the new Garlic Jr and piccolo jr. Quite complaining.

Now i will say this, bandai does underpower it's types, like earth and super. Maby that is why everyone is going crazy, cause the good guys can't win

[BalanceBJJ]

bUT SERIOUSLY, it seems like every newcomer to the boards complain. Mono unique can kill villain IMO now with the new Garlic Jr and piccolo jr. Quite complaining.


I do not see where those two cards give Evil Tribe anywhere near the bump to give them even supposed dominance over mono-Villain.

[DBZFan]

I do not see where those two cards give Evil Tribe anywhere near the bump to give them even supposed dominance over mono-Villain.

easy, rush with piccolo jr, and a 8 guy who can't be targeted by hell flash on turn 6

[BalanceBJJ]

So what are you're 1 and 2 drops to rush with Piccolo Jr? And why can't you just Hell Flash someone else? It's not like -5 isn't always -5. Why would you even need to Hell Flash since your team power is probably bigger even if the other guy has Garlic Jr.

[Snow]

If we're going to talk overall team power. On Turn 4, you can have a 15 with Evil Tribe. No pumps. Try doing that with any other deck. Won't happen. You also have kindly overlooked their weakness to rush.

And, for next set, why complain about it already? Have all the cards been announced? What about Adventure Battle? You overlook so much just so you can argue "When it comes to early game, Villain can get the largest team the fastest." You're 100% right. Villain is a great rush deck. Dragonball Radio has already provided you with information on how to confront a rush. I'm sure a new episode about how to counter the new Villain will be out shortly. Just wait for the release.

Every deck has a weakness. Just because you can't find it, or choose to ignore it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[BalanceBJJ]

On Turn 4, you can have a 15 with Evil Tribe. No pumps. Try doing that with any other deck. Won't happen. You also have kindly overlooked their weakness to rush.

Admittedly I don't see where you're getting a 15 from, but I'm probably just missing something.

And, for next set, why complain about it already? Have all the cards been announced? What about Adventure Battle? You overlook so much just so you can argue "When it comes to early game, Villain can get the largest team the fastest." You're 100% right. Villain is a great rush deck. Dragonball Radio has already provided you with information on how to confront a rush. I'm sure a new episode about how to counter the new Villain will be out shortly. Just wait for the release.

He says that with Piccolo Jr and Garlic Jr that in his opinion mono Unique has an advantage in the match up with Mono Villain. I'm asking him to show me where, that has absolutely nothing to do with Adventure Showdown at this point.

You are entirely right that it would seem that due to the fact that Villain will not be running 3 drops in favor of their more versatile and more powerful 2 and 1 drops, thus possibly making them vulnerable to Adventure Showdown decks. We don't even know if those decks will work, what color can run them, or how effective they are. So far we have what 2 Adventure Showdown Techniques, and the one event. Villain also seems has a natural counter to Adventure Showdown in Pilaf and Buyon.

[Snow]

So, I want to hear from you what you think a good counter to all of these "broken" Villain cards would be. What do you think you would do to not make decks more powerful than Villain, but to balance them all out then? Should every deck become a rush deck? That's all Villain is, a rush with a taste of endgame, especially versus other types. It's simply an easy concept to defend against.

[DBZFan]

So, I want to hear from you what you think a good counter to all of these "broken" Villain cards would be. What do you think you would do to not make decks more powerful than Villain, but to balance them all out then? Should every deck become a rush deck? That's all Villain is, a rush with a taste of endgame, especially versus other types. It's simply an easy concept to defend against.

Actually, i do find villain right now killed by rush. I play a standered mono villain with everything exept cell, and i get killed by Super/alien rush. Goku+kai+Frieza= 8 on turn 2. Tell me that isn't a ov for a opposing warrior. I don't get the chance to make big teams and to be awesome cause of the FWT in my hand doesn't do any good till the andriods come in play. U know what? It is time i make a thread about this.........

[BalanceBJJ]

So, I want to hear from you what you think a good counter to all of these "broken" Villain cards would be. What do you think you would do to not make decks more powerful than Villain, but to balance them all out then? Should every deck become a rush deck? That's all Villain is, a rush with a taste of endgame, especially versus other types. It's simply an easy concept to defend against.

I have never said any of the cards were broken. I have simply said they are all very good cards, and that Villain seems to have gotten more then the share of very good cards, also that the cards they are getting fill a gap or a need that they have. While the other colors aren't getting those holes filled.

However simple a concept it maybe, they simply have bigger warriors and pumps making countering the concept harder then it should be. Do you think Adventure Showdown will do it? The only color I see pulling that off is mono Earth with their Huge Difference in power because otherwise its not that easy to OV someone with an Adventure Showdown, even if Villain runs a bunch of 2 drops you need to draw a 7 to OV that. And if you don't OV Villain they can just block with Buyon all day till you run out of Adventure Showdown techs. Earth can force the OV but they have no plunder to keep from getting Pilaf. Then you have 16,17,18 all big warriors with Toughness that keep their stats when injured. I don't think there are enough Adventure Showdown techs that we've seen

[soviet prince]

there is an earth event that helps just that. it's funny how everybody is saying broke when nobody has playtested this set yet?

[darkcry]

Yes ppl need 2 STFU a bit we seen maybe half the set yet... yes villain gonna be strong, but there so much more then that... mono unique is gonna be great, so is most dual deck, and once again no one as play tested anything yet.

[swordmaster]

Plz explain how evil tribe gets a 15 on turn 4

Piccolo is a 7 if you evolve him i get that.... not evil tribe though
King piccolo is a 3 he does not give himself +1/+1
and evil tribe warriors all have 2 support at the most.
also no ally am I missing something here?

[soviet prince]

galic 8+king pic+3, Garlic+3, spice 2=15

just use evil force to get a 4 team

[BalanceBJJ]

He did say with no pumps.

[swordmaster]

that might not be considered a pump though for some ppl. i think without techs or events it is impossible though. Maybe if there is a tribe ally with 3 support coming then maybe (dabura is probably turn 5 though) so even if he was 3 support no help there. basically you would need a turn 2 evil tribe with 3 support for it to work cause turn 3 is king piccolo turn 4 is garlic so if they made a turn 2 evil tribe with like 2/3 stats i might be able to see that.... either that or ally.

[soviet prince]

efo is not a pump.

[BalanceBJJ]

no it's not because it doesn't say add X, but by adding a warrior you are bumping your team up. **** you could say you could make a team of:

Garlic (8) + Slug (4) + Mustard (2) + Salt (3) + Nail (3) + King Piccolo (3) = 23 on team 4, with no pumps! just 3 EFO

[soviet prince]

no it's not because it doesn't say add X, but by adding a warrior you are bumping your team up. **** you could say you could make a team of:

Garlic (8) + Slug (4) + Mustard (2) + Salt (3) + Nail (3) + King Piccolo (3) = 23 on team 4, with no pumps! just 3 EFO
well that pretty much the only possable way

[swordmaster]

Maybe he ment to say villain
turn 0 SCR
turn 1 Violet
turn 2 Metalitron
turn 3 Commander black
turn 4 Android 19

that is a team power 15 only way to do it in the game!!

[Ninja Pebble]

Maybe he ment to say villain
turn 0 SCR
turn 1 Violet +3
turn 2 Metalitron +5
turn 3 Commander black +2
turn 4 Android 19 +4

that is a team power 15 only way to do it in the game!!

A team of Metal, 19, Violet and Black makes a team of 14 not 15.

[swordmaster]

wait your right my bad

I will just turn 5 drop cell 2nd and make a 17 ;)

[Baloo666]

Plz explain how evil tribe gets a 15 on turn 4

Piccolo is a 7 if you evolve him i get that.... not evil tribe though
King piccolo is a 3 he does not give himself +1/+1
and evil tribe warriors all have 2 support at the most.
also no ally am I missing something here?


EVIL FORCE ORGANISE!

[swordmaster]

Soviet already said that. I personally consider all outside cards pumps, cause if that is the case Awakening of evil is turn 5 and I can drop a four support then into my team so it all evens out. Or playing multiple evil force organized can give you up to six characters in one team, it is just another way to pump without reinforcements. Also it is only for one turn you can't do it consistently.

[Raikiribokken]

yeah, man. I am really scared of unique's potential in this set, because that Super Garlic Jr. is nasty, and in turn 4? That is the possible deck that might beat villain to the ground, IMO...

[Snow]

Yeah, EFO is going to be a beast, and was exactly what I was talking about. On top of that, we definitely have at least one more Evil Tribe character to see, that being Dabura, who might have 4 support as well. And all Evil Tribe do not have only two support... King Piccolo 3, Lord Slug 4, Piccolo Jr. 3, Garlic Jr. 3, Super Garlic Jr. 4, he's a hot item. I'm certain that Unique can give Villain a run for their money next set. I'd be hard pressed to say this set however, because Piccolo Jr. and Garlic Jr. and Lord Slug are their only end game fighters. Next set that won't be the case and will become insane.

[BalanceBJJ]

I disagree with you Snow, this set I've found that Evil Tribe stacks up pretty well to mono-Villain it's next set I'm worried about. The problem next set is that the early game advatage that Evil Tribe had which allowed it to not have to play a straight up top team vs top team late game with mono-Villain isn't there.

DBZFan keeps saying that with Piccolo Jr and Garlic Jr Evil Tribe is set, but I don't see it. Piccolo Jr is only a modest bump because playing him loses me my best 4 drop, while he is only slightly better then splashing 0 drop Goku. Thier 1 and 2 drops are still probably the worst of any color. Garlic Jr is a big bump especially if you EFO him, but he also takes your second best 4 drop away from you. This set Evil Tribe is already pretty reliant on EFO because they don't really put out the biggest teams so they need to get bigger warrior out early, next set it seems like it's even more so.

If Evil Tribe gets a 1/2 drop with 2 support, and maybe a decent 4 drop. I'll be right with you saying that they will probalby go tit for tat in the match up with Villain. If the deck becomes more reliant on EFO, it just gets worse.

[CaMeRoN]

Guys.. Evil Forced Organized should be considered a pump.. It's adding team power to your team.. You won't have that team of 4 forever.. There are other colours that can make teams of 15 easily without using a technique.. Once you use your EFO to make up the difference they will counter with something else to bring you back down..

Im not going to speculate whats what next set because we really don't know until we playtest ^.^ Though I am looking forward to every colour being able to create a stable deck.. Dual decks will also surface now that we are able to perform some very nice combos.. It's going to be fun!

[Snow]

First off, EFO does not effect the user, therefore it's not a pump. You don't even have to place it on the same TEAM as the user, AND the card requires a specific character. THAT'S why it's not a pump. Tell me what other types can make a team of 15 on Turn 4 (during your opponents turn, tehrefore at the end of your turn 3 really). No other type, so let's not even argue about that.

Villain is counter-able, that's the point I'm making. If you don't think it is, if you think the game is broken, then why are you wasting your time with it? I know I wouldn't be. Quit complaining, it's easy to beat, the numbers just look scary at the start. Their rush doesn't even START til turn 2, so t2-t4 they can have a rush over you, who cares? You'll have a rush other them t0-t2. Nail is a great T4 and will easily take the place of Piccolo Jr. It'll be nice to get Piccolo evolved and drop Nail in the same turn, making a 12 possible (Piccolo, Nail, and King Piccolo), then adding ANY EFO really to make it a 15+. That's nice no matter how you look at it. Also, you can always drop an Android.

I don't see a point in continuing this discussion anymore. . . haven't the points of "it's broken, it's not broken" been beaten to death now?

[BalanceBJJ]

Ok Snow it's not a pump, but it is a card from hand that is used to bump your team power past what it is normally capable of. It's not just dropping warriors and adding them together, you have to hit a certain warrior, give that certain warrior a DB, have a certain tech, and have something in your chi/discard worth bringing out. It's not a given, but it is a decent percentage. I think EFO is tied with 4 Witches for best technique, it is a must have must hit in an Evil Tribe deck.

Part of what I'm saying is that in order to rush them turn 0-2 you need something more then Cymbal and the gang, Evil Tribe has the worst 1-2 drop. Yeah you can run splash but how much splash can you run if you have to splash for half your 0 then your 1,2, and 4 drop.

What Piccolo are you running that you are evolving Jr? Turn 5 SR? Yeah he's good but he isn't Evil Tribe. Run Nail, yeah he's good but he isn't Evil Tribe, Androids not Evil Tribe. If you have that much not Evil Tribe, who are you using EFO on? Slug, Garlic, Dabura right? How many of those can you really hope to have in your deck? You already are putting Piccolo SR in Slugs slot, how many 6 drops can you run in a deck that needs to be able to rush 0-2? You can't bugger up your curve so much that you have to have EFO to play straight, because guess what you only have 3 KP's sometimes the king has left the building.

This set Evil Tribe and Villain it's a toss up match. Sometimes you can hit Villain early, EFO some guys in, and force him to spread his guys out, and then you just ECW FTW. Sometimes you don't hit them early and you get double 4 Witched. Right now it's even. With the new ruling for Selection I actually think it is a dead on match up

Next set Villains got a bump to most parts of their game, they have the most solid curve, with warriors to choose from at every drop. Unless Evil Tribe gets 2 out of 3 of either a good 1 drop, 2 drop, or 4 drop, or some loopy technique that lets you go search for KP and is forced to run alot of splash/non Evil Tribe to try and rush, and cover their 4 drop, you will not have the warrior to reliably believe that you are going to charge one off so you can EFO for that absurd 15 on 4. Not to mention the fact that you waste KP if he doesn't have the warrior out to pump. SCR doesn't have to worry about being wasted, every warrior has RRA, and get stats, and the few that don't oh theres a 1 drop with 2 base support that does it for free. I swear everyone of my decks is gonna have Siabamen just to nueter her.

[swordmaster]

First off, EFO does not effect the user, therefore it's not a pump. You don't even have to place it on the same TEAM as the user, AND the card requires a specific character. THAT'S why it's not a pump. Tell me what other types can make a team of 15 on Turn 4 (during your opponents turn, tehrefore at the end of your turn 3 really). No other type, so let's not even argue about that.

Villain is counter-able, that's the point I'm making. If you don't think it is, if you think the game is broken, then why are you wasting your time with it? I know I wouldn't be. Quit complaining, it's easy to beat, the numbers just look scary at the start. Their rush doesn't even START til turn 2, so t2-t4 they can have a rush over you, who cares? You'll have a rush other them t0-t2. Nail is a great T4 and will easily take the place of Piccolo Jr. It'll be nice to get Piccolo evolved and drop Nail in the same turn, making a 12 possible (Piccolo, Nail, and King Piccolo), then adding ANY EFO really to make it a 15+. That's nice no matter how you look at it. Also, you can always drop an Android.

I don't see a point in continuing this discussion anymore. . . haven't the points of "it's broken, it's not broken" been beaten to death now?

yes snow yes we have. I am guilty of having perpetrated some of that death beating but I am tired of talking about it. I still think villain is one of the best decks out, but I suppose you are right, given a good hand unique can do wonders and you never even mentioned the fact that they still have 4 unaccounted for cards which I am certain one is going to be evil tribe.
I really wish super ad alien could do the same thing but they can dual so I guess i am saying I agree with you, villain is not broken its just really really good. But I still wish it sucked like earth did last set.

[Snow]

Ok Snow it's not a pump, but it is a card from hand that is used to bump your team power past what it is normally capable of. It's not just dropping warriors and adding them together, you have to hit a certain warrior, give that certain warrior a DB, have a certain tech, and have something in your chi/discard worth bringing out. It's not a given, but it is a decent percentage. I think EFO is tied with 4 Witches for best technique, it is a must have must hit in an Evil Tribe deck.

Part of what I'm saying is that in order to rush them turn 0-2 you need something more then Cymbal and the gang, Evil Tribe has the worst 1-2 drop. Yeah you can run splash but how much splash can you run if you have to splash for half your 0 then your 1,2, and 4 drop.

What Piccolo are you running that you are evolving Jr? Turn 5 SR? Yeah he's good but he isn't Evil Tribe. Run Nail, yeah he's good but he isn't Evil Tribe, Androids not Evil Tribe. If you have that much not Evil Tribe, who are you using EFO on? Slug, Garlic, Dabura right? How many of those can you really hope to have in your deck? You already are putting Piccolo SR in Slugs slot, how many 6 drops can you run in a deck that needs to be able to rush 0-2? You can't bugger up your curve so much that you have to have EFO to play straight, because guess what you only have 3 KP's sometimes the king has left the building.

This set Evil Tribe and Villain it's a toss up match. Sometimes you can hit Villain early, EFO some guys in, and force him to spread his guys out, and then you just ECW FTW. Sometimes you don't hit them early and you get double 4 Witched. Right now it's even. With the new ruling for Selection I actually think it is a dead on match up

Next set Villains got a bump to most parts of their game, they have the most solid curve, with warriors to choose from at every drop. Unless Evil Tribe gets 2 out of 3 of either a good 1 drop, 2 drop, or 4 drop, or some loopy technique that lets you go search for KP and is forced to run alot of splash/non Evil Tribe to try and rush, and cover their 4 drop, you will not have the warrior to reliably believe that you are going to charge one off so you can EFO for that absurd 15 on 4. Not to mention the fact that you waste KP if he doesn't have the warrior out to pump. SCR doesn't have to worry about being wasted, every warrior has RRA, and get stats, and the few that don't oh theres a 1 drop with 2 base support that does it for free. I swear everyone of my decks is gonna have Siabamen just to nueter her.

You don't have to run Cymbal T0. For a mono Unique (and I stress NOT trying this in a dual) you can EASILY, and almost PREFERABLY, splash in baba to help you get that King Piccolo, and manipulate your in chi and discard pile warriors for a successful Evil Force Organized!. I'm hoping to see a 2 support Evil tribe T1 this set, and if we do, then everyone will be quiet about Evil tribe's T1. I mean, I still say you can just splash in really ANY T1 2 support you want, and you'll have a stronger T0-t2 rush than Villain. Because while they CAN splash in a Goku or something T0, It'd be harmful over helpful.

There are T0, 1, 2, 5, and 6 Evil tribe that I'll be running. That's more than enough characters to Evil Force Organize in. I left out T3 for KP, and left out T4 because of my aforementioned preference. That means pretty much every turn has a character you can EFO in, and that leaves you with plenty of options. If we do get that T1 2 support Evil Tribe then everyone will definitely shut up, because that's 3 support you can EFO into battle. and let us not forget that I can use my Pure Impules to get rid of any pesky character that I want that's been messing with my game. All I have to do is get a single attack point over you.

All the problems you've mentioned are easily reparable if you simply look at the basic tactics of the game, and think ahead more than a single turn. Charging problems? baba. Not getting the King out has the same chance as the Supreme Commander, so I'm not going to even talk about that one. There are plenty of EFO characters as there are RRA characters, so I'm not going to talk about that one either. You also forget that Unique gets a 5 support without Evil Tribe, in Majin Buu, who's just frankly a beast. You can argue about Villain as much as you want, but it's a dead horse, and all I'm doing at this point is giving you the same counter statement that I have.

Villain isn't broken, all decks are WMA playable except in my opinion Earth. Bandai, great job.

[Bibbo]

I don't think Villain is broken, just strong. *Warning YGO Obligatory Reference* Just like monarch decks back in their hayday, they weren't broken but they were just so darn good.

[DBZFan]

I don't think Villain is broken, just strong. *Warning YGO Obligatory Reference* Just like monarch decks back in their hayday, they weren't broken but they were just so darn good.

It's kinda like the red style decks vs every other deck in old DBZ. Red was really good

[Makeshift Ghost]

It's kinda like the red style decks vs every other deck in old DBZ. Red was really good

not in the TCG, Sayian was the best.

[BalanceBJJ]

You don't have to run Cymbal T0. For a mono Unique (and I stress NOT trying this in a dual) you can EASILY, and almost PREFERABLY, splash in baba to help you get that King Piccolo, and manipulate your in chi and discard pile warriors for a successful Evil Force Organized!. I'm hoping to see a 2 support Evil tribe T1 this set, and if we do, then everyone will be quiet about Evil tribe's T1. I mean, I still say you can just splash in really ANY T1 2 support you want, and you'll have a stronger T0-t2 rush than Villain. Because while they CAN splash in a Goku or something T0, It'd be harmful over helpful.


I run I think 1 Cymbal, I do splash turn 1 for 2 support warriors, 2 Baba 2 Kai. But what I'm saying is you can't splash your 1,2,4 and half your zero. Like I've said a decent t1 and/or t2 is whats needs so you are not forced to run splash/non Evil Tribe in half of your drops. And Snow it isn't a 0-2 rush against Villain its a 0-1 rush because by turn 2 Villain is starting to get to their better warriors, which since you agree they don't need to run t3 there will be a ton of.

There are T0, 1, 2, 5, and 6 Evil tribe that I'll be running. That's more than enough characters to Evil Force Organize in. I left out T3 for KP, and left out T4 because of my aforementioned preference. That means pretty much every turn has a character you can EFO in, and that leaves you with plenty of options. If we do get that T1 2 support Evil Tribe then everyone will definitely shut up, because that's 3 support you can EFO into battle. and let us not forget that I can use my Pure Impules to get rid of any pesky character that I want that's been messing with my game. All I have to do is get a single attack point over you.


And so far EFO on the 0,1,2 equates to a crappy pump, if you aren't using EFO on your 5 and 6 you aren't getting even a fraction of it's power. That's the problem that you only have 1 small group of cards at present that EFO is worth playing on, and it's your drops that you run the least of.

There are plenty of EFO characters as there are RRA characters, so I'm not going to talk about that one either.

I had to edit this because I counted, there are more ET warriors, but after you take out the ones that are the same people, and the ones that are absurdly useless (Vinegar,Spice), the RRA has more.

Not getting the King out has the same chance as the Supreme Commander, so I'm not going to even talk about that one.

And who is more important to their respective decks? You wanna talk about that? What deck can actually function reasonably well without their guy seeing the board? It's probably the deck who's warrior have better base stats to begin with, and doesn't have their best tech unplayable without him.

Villain isn't broken, all decks are WMA playable except in my opinion Earth. Bandai, great job.

For the last god forsaken time, I have never said that Villain is broken. I'm trying to have a half way civil discussion with you, and all you do is freak out and tell people to stop saying it's broken. I'm not saying it is broken I'm saying it is better, and that other decks are still in need of things to make it even.

[Makeshift Ghost]

But Villian is was too easy for players to win with in WMA, I have a tier one Villian deck and I don't use it cause like the easy wins with it, running other decks are more fun.

[DBZFan]

But Villian is was too easy for players to win with in WMA, I have a tier one Villian deck and I don't use it cause like the easy wins with it, running other decks are more fun.

I don't like playing with villain either. 4WTech makes it easy to win, plaus i don't like playing the bad guys.

And saiyan was a good stly in old z, but red always won.

[Makeshift Ghost]

I don't like playing with villain either. 4WTech makes it easy to win, plaus i don't like playing the bad guys.

And saiyan was a good stly in old z, but red always won.

Not in the DBZTCG, I could get your 60 card Deck decked out by turn 4. it was beast, no style could beat it, red came close but Sayian was Tier 1.

[Random-Man]

galic 8+king pic+3, Garlic+3, spice 2=15

just use evil force to get a 4 team


hahah I Would Like to see someone pull this off. If you need this to beat mono-villian then GL. ha. I won against a villian deck once... Ya I said it. It was pure luck. I hit my strongest curve and he had to redraw to 5 cards and still got nothing good. I got slaughtered everyother game. We need more than just plain luck to win. We need consistancy against villian and consistancy is not what i'm seeing. I'm seeing villan being the most consistant with victories and thats why we thing villian is OP...
...IDK if any of that made sense... i don't feal like revising or editing