Villian busted the game.

[swordmaster]

ok from what I have seen of villains new cards I feel they have broken the game.

1) a turn 0 2 support no one else has
2) a turn 2 4 attack no one else has
3) a turn 2 infinite blocker that can not be damaged till turn 4
4) an ally that can support multiple cards. Which no one else has.

all this with turn 0 king piccolo which is valid and the best reinforcement in the game = I win there is no contest. I will wait to see what the super and alien come out with but so far no one else can compare

[LordxMugen]

they are not broken. while its true theyve gained some new allys that help them out alot, it doesnt make them unbeatable. the turn 2s are neat but
in many ways they are still suceptible to old decks like dual color rush (ill let you figure out for youself which colors they are). hell, if it wasnt for some changes to my villain deck, id still lose pretty terrible to them. heck, to a point Super Heal/Namekian Power up can beat them at a stronger late game. but ive said enough. as a villain player, i dont feel like giving you all answers. sometimes its best just to think about the meta and certain card strategies and combos you may not have thought about before. i sure as hell know there are a few i didnt see till my friends showed me or i brainstormed new deck ideas, many my teamates STILL dont agree with.

just look at the cards out right now and youll find something that beats them. although you may find you have to play soemthing totally out of your element.

[swordmaster]

you proved my point
a perfect example, of what I am saying, I am going to have to at best run a card out of my element in order to top a mono deck that is all on element, and on top of that if I miss that card "you say exists" that is off element then you win, if I hit it but can't pay for it, you win. the fact you can make a turn 4 - 14 team strength when every other color is straining for a 12 team strength turn 5 is dumb. I know I have changed to villain I think it is the new fire of the game. during the world tournaments I am sure you will see 80% of all ppl playing the RR deck.

[HeroItachi]

ok from what I have seen of villains new cards I feel they have broken the game.

1) General White
2) Major Metallitron
3) Buyon
4) Staff Officer Black

all this with Supreme Commander Red who is valid and the best reinforcement in the game = I win there is no contest. I will wait to see what the super and alien come out with but so far no one else can compare

Names are always nice. In any case, I can't argue with you since I don't get to play too much DB in my area. Not enough players:(

[LordxMugen]

you proved my point
a perfect example, of what I am saying, I am going to have to at best run a card out of my element in order to top a mono deck that is all on element, and on top of that if I miss that card "you say exists" that is off element then you win, if I hit it but can't pay for it, you win. the fact you can make a turn 4 - 14 team strength when every other color is straining for a 12 team strength turn 5 is dumb. I know I have changed to villain I think it is the new fire of the game. during the world tournaments I am sure you will see 80% of all ppl playing the RR deck.

no, you misunderstand me, you might actually have to run an entirely different deck than your used to to beat them. thats what you might not like but is most likely completely unavoidable considering their popularity. so you have 2 choices.

1. Play the deck you always have been and make a few changes and sidedeck choices to cope with the metagame and hope for the best.

or

2. Play a deck that can go toe to toe with the metagame deck and probably eek out win that way.

of course choice 2 means you might end up playing a new deck and having to learn how to play that deck correctly and deal with it's strengths as well as shortcomings. gotta love deck building. but its completely up to you how you go about it.

[swordmaster]

always a option 3; be like everybody else and build the beast meta deck and add the few cards that beat your own deck in the side board and win the tournament on luck since everyone is playing the same deck.

The problem is that none of those options are very fun

[LordxMugen]

well if you wanna win a few boxes of cards, you might have to do things you dont like to win. or you could always join a strong team and still play something you like and hope one of yall wins then share amongst the group. thats always good.

[swordmaster]

its just a tragic thing in my mind to see a card game go down this road. As I have seen so many do b4. I guess we will see in like 4 or 5 sets down the road what will be, but for this set Villain red ribbon is king. At least one positive thing is it is cheap. Very few super rares to the deck. That is I guess the way it has to be the way it has to be.

[Piccolo'sDad]

I still can't figure out why everyone is praising Villain so much really. Yeah, it's a good deck, but it isn't as if people aren't going to play other deck types and still win as well. It's a neat little theme, but it gets shut down hard with the right cards at the right time.

[swordmaster]

lets me break mono down for you.

ok villain this is all just with RR cards
turn 0 choice between commander red or general white a 1 or 0 not good but don't block and get a dragon ball.

turn 1 drop the other now you have a 4 team not great but good don't block get one or two more DB.

turn 2 drop metalitron or buyon now you either have a 9 team power or an 8 that can not be damaged cause of that turn 0 dragon ball, this is all with a 0/0 in your team now you are stronger than most decks

turn 3 drop commander black or cell now you have an 11 team power or 10 that can not be damaged still stronger than most decks

turn 4 drop android 19 or 20 and give em an extra ball if you have one turn 1, now you have a team power 14 or 13 that can not recieve damage and drains ki. Now you are stronger than or as strong as all decks and ties will not result in damage.

turn 5 and 6 you can still get stronger cell 2nd form and android 20; your an 18 with just characters.

ok lets look at mono super which given super has not come out yet
turn 0 goku is your only choice
turn 1 goten or gohan, or yamcha; goten is the best option cause goku is already a 3 so you can make team power 5
turn 2 roshi needs a ball so you let opponant get 2 rewards now you can attack with a team power 8 also only choice for 2 drop
turn 3 you can make a 9 with krillian only choice 3 drop
turn 4 you can make a 10 with trunks only choice

now unique
turn 0 piccolo jr best to only choice
turn 1 cymbal or maybe guru or dende team power at most 4
turn 2 salt team power 5 only choice
turn 3 king piccolo team power jump to 9
turn 4 even if you evolve to piccolo witch adds 3 power and drop garlic jr your still only a 12 if you use the new piccolo/kami with super in your deck your a 13

now earth which requires turn 3 world martial arts so lets add that
turn 0 bulma...
turn 1 baba team power 2
turn 2 vadel or chi chi team power 5
turn 3 pan team power 11 w/ WMAT
turn 4 olibu team power team power 13 w/Wmat

finally alien which has not come out mind you
turn 0 saibaman or rasberry team of a 1 or 2
turn 1 king kai team power 4
turn 2 frieza team power 7
turn 3 evolve frieza 2nd form and drop zarbon or any other 2 supprot; team power 9. You could drop cell for a 10 though
turn 4 evolve frieza 3rd form and drop bardock; team power 11 or 13 with king kai one shot

As for reinforcement techniques villain's is better; turn 2 four witches is a +3 team power turn 4 it is a +4 team power and can be more later. so without using damage villain is unstoppable.
Want an infinite blocker emperor pilaf and buyon now all fights end in a draw and you take no damage.

So in summation while every other style needs to evolve, strain, and call on extra cards to make a 13 at best; you are pulling 14 with just 5, for all those reasons villain is king.

[BalanceBJJ]

Dude we haven't even seen that many previews, it is way soon for a post like this, you have no clue what the rest of the set looks like.

You are right from turn 2 on Villain could make the biggest teams, but guess what they can already do that this set and they weren't so overpowered as to break the game. General Blue is still the best 2 drop as he is a 4/3 that guarantees you aren't getting blocked that turn.

I'm not happy with the fact that Villain gets pretty beefy early warriors that can be pumped with SCR and Evil Tribe has such a ****ty one and two drop that they are probably dropping off color, but it didn't break the game before.

All of your stats analysis exclude any splash at all, which even mono decks have.

Yes RRA has gotten the biggest boost from the shown previews, but we have only seen two colors worth or them, and RRA was the first actual theme.

Just wait until you see you know half the cards to declare the game dead

[Tommy2tone]

im absolutely with balance!!! (and not just because i know him) i cant believe that u r all declaring this thing broken. it is the third set and roughly 20% of the preview has been shown. stop wasting ur time crying about villian and start coming up with statagies of ur own to catch people off guard when the new set comes out. get creative and come up with FUN ridiculous combos and let ur opponents worry about what u r gonna do not vice versa.

[swordmaster]

I believe I mentioned that alien and super have not been shown but generally speaking the biggest cards from the sets are shown in previews. Take wind for example in naruto this last set. The previews were horrid so now the decks are too. I have been playing bandai games for 3 or 4 years now and I still play them, cause I don't like the other games out there, but that aside, I am not declaring the game dead. I am just saying villain is strongest now (ie breaking the current power level). Heck I still could be wrong you are right. They could come out with a gohans inner power or going super sayain or something that allows for a turn 3 super sayain to hit the field or something like that, but villain is without a doubt what we will see most in the tournaments. It is cheap and breaks character base stat limits set by the game in the first 2 sets.

[CaMeRoN]

I love how people fly off the handle over everything. This is basically the same thing that happened last set when General Blue was previewed. Everyone acted like he would be the end of the game but as you can see in the current meta, that isn't the case at all.

I wouldn't put any confidence into the words of this doomsayer without seeing the full set. Bandai isn't about to ruin their game with a couple new cards. They will balance things out like they have. Also, Villain is really good now but without another good technique to back them up they will just be blowing steam.

[Snow]

lets me break mono down for you.

ok villain this is all just with RR cards
turn 0 choice between commander red or general white a 1 or 0 not good but don't block and get a dragon ball.

turn 1 drop the other now you have a 4 team not great but good don't block get one or two more DB.

turn 2 drop metalitron or buyon now you either have a 9 team power or an 8 that can not be damaged cause of that turn 0 dragon ball, this is all with a 0/0 in your team now you are stronger than most decks

turn 3 drop commander black or cell now you have an 11 team power or 10 that can not be damaged still stronger than most decks

turn 4 drop android 19 or 20 and give em an extra ball if you have one turn 1, now you have a team power 14 or 13 that can not recieve damage and drains ki. Now you are stronger than or as strong as all decks and ties will not result in damage.

turn 5 and 6 you can still get stronger cell 2nd form and android 20; your an 18 with just characters.

ok lets look at mono super which given super has not come out yet
turn 0 goku is your only choice
turn 1 goten or gohan, or yamcha; goten is the best option cause goku is already a 3 so you can make team power 5
turn 2 roshi needs a ball so you let opponant get 2 rewards now you can attack with a team power 8 also only choice for 2 drop
turn 3 you can make a 9 with krillian only choice 3 drop
turn 4 you can make a 10 with trunks only choice

now unique
turn 0 piccolo jr best to only choice
turn 1 cymbal or maybe guru or dende team power at most 4
turn 2 salt team power 5 only choice
turn 3 king piccolo team power jump to 9
turn 4 even if you evolve to piccolo witch adds 3 power and drop garlic jr your still only a 12 if you use the new piccolo/kami with super in your deck your a 13

now earth which requires turn 3 world martial arts so lets add that
turn 0 bulma...
turn 1 baba team power 2
turn 2 vadel or chi chi team power 5
turn 3 pan team power 11 w/ WMAT
turn 4 olibu team power team power 13 w/Wmat

finally alien which has not come out mind you
turn 0 saibaman or rasberry team of a 1 or 2
turn 1 king kai team power 4
turn 2 frieza team power 7
turn 3 evolve frieza 2nd form and drop zarbon or any other 2 supprot; team power 9. You could drop cell for a 10 though
turn 4 evolve frieza 3rd form and drop bardock; team power 11 or 13 with king kai one shot

As for reinforcement techniques villain's is better; turn 2 four witches is a +3 team power turn 4 it is a +4 team power and can be more later. so without using damage villain is unstoppable.
Want an infinite blocker emperor pilaf and buyon now all fights end in a draw and you take no damage.

So in summation while every other style needs to evolve, strain, and call on extra cards to make a 13 at best; you are pulling 14 with just 5, for all those reasons villain is king.

So, you're speaking after seeing a VERY limited number of the cards. There's not even a point of having this discussion, in my opinion. But okay. I'll run down with these 'incredible cards' of which you speak.

T0 drop. Okay, he has two support. That's a 4 (if running mono Villain) at the very best. Any deck running a Goku and a 2 support can beat this. So, he's not all that great. Plus, your opponent gets a free hit first go through. You'll either take PD or get injured.

T1 is a 4 max. I'm not even going to talk about this.

T2 Yeah, it's great that you can get that big team with Major Metallitron who is a 5/0. but with the drops you've claimed are so good, he's still only a 4 on T2. Awesome, but not broken. Buyon yeah may not get injured, but he doesn't win the match either. He's a great chump blocker, but with tons of cards having things like plunder or fierce, you're simply not going to WANT to chump with him -- or anyone. And if you do, I'll either fierce your and/or take that dragonball which makes him "oh so powerful"

You also make it sound like only running a mono is the greatest comparison. You're also making it sound like you'll hit a T2 drop every single time. Most decent+ players don't run more than 3 T2 drops, it's just not that pivotal a turn. That SINGLE T2 may be stronger than most sets, but that doesn't mean that other sets can't get around it. Also, gtfo with the T0 goku for a mono super. Most run T3 goku for the insane super heal. Plus on T3 he can be a 9+.

Say it's broken all you want, Unique alone can easily give this a run for it's money. Talk about that T2 I counter with a nice little card I like to call Pure Impluse. Ends your problem there. Not to mention a TON of Unique has plunder, so you're probably not going to be blocking in the first place, taking more and more PD.

Villain is far from broken. I'm not going to do an analysis of the cards in the next set really, because we've seen 30. That's not enough to even begin to throw down on what types better than the rest. End of story.

[theyellowdart]

and don't forget some of the other cards we have seen. unique has some sweet techs/events that could potentially be abused. i'm too lazy to get specific, but look on the cyber realms gaming site, and you'll see some sweet unique combos people have posted. we still don't know what majin vegeta will be like, he could potentially stand up to villain guys. also, let's say you upa's wish ss 3 goku out on turn 4. if you have 3 chi (which is about the average i have w/ a super deck i play), he's a 10 by himself. add trunks and a 2 support warrior like goten, and that's 15 on turn 4. i know that's a little harder to pull off then the villain team you mentioned, but there are still ways to beat villain. maybe right now villain looks like the best, but i think bandai has shown that they won't make this game broken. i can't say that for sure, but that's my opinion.

[Makeshift Ghost]

I have played and beat villian decks with mono super, my super heal deck, and mono alien, its not that hard.
Kamehameha can damage any one of the villians, combo with krillin and a solar flare you can damage all of their warriors except cell Complete form (along with giving any warrior a -2 or play another solar flare and give a warrior minus 3 for 5 chi, if you end your action after solar and then give them a kamehameha).
The only card I think is a little too overpowered is 4 witches ( i think it should be base value but till then got to deal with it) but again it is beatable.
People that complain about decks that are good must suck as a player, cause it shows
1. you have already given up and already declared defeat.
2. You must not be bright or good enough to come up with combos to beat cards.

Quit complaining and stop saying the game is broken, cause its not. What broken is Being able to potentially deck out a player in 2 turns with a saiyan deck in DBZ CCG or TCG (Sayian Back smash, no cost for your attacks, beast mode.), thats broken.

Wait to see what Alien and Super have in store.

[swordmaster]

lets just leave it at a disagreement all the statements you are making are valid. I personally prefer to run the decks that everyone has to deal with rather than dealing with other ppls decks. Pure impulse is a fine card as long as you can get a victory, but a very valid tactic none the less. I think the deck is a beast and if I am running 0-5 drops that build an 18 while everyone else has to run 6 and 7 drops to get that level that to me is a ringer. Also I don't see cards that rival it comming out such as a turn 2 natural 5/1 or a turn 0 natural 1/3. Everyone is getting mad over my opinion (some a little too mad) but it is still just an opinion.

I personally am rooting against villain even though I just bought all of the cards to play it.

edit: call me a bad player all you want, but the fact is I am not. I was top tier in DBZ ccg and in redbz yes the no cost attacks were broken. I have looked at the combos and the cards to get around the deck and they are not impressive. Kamehameha does not effect buyon and if i play resisting power, which is amazing, your not touching metalitron either. and if you solar flare to play it, even better you waist ki and cards. Again take this as an opinion, disreguard it even I am just calling it as I see it.

[Snow]

lets just leave it at a disagreement all the statements you are making are valid. I personally prefer to run the decks that everyone has to deal with rather than dealing with other ppls decks. Pure impulse is a fine card as long as you can get a victory, but a very valid tactic none the less. I think the deck is a beast and if I am running 0-5 drops that build an 18 while everyone else has to run 6 and 7 drops to get that level that to me is a ringer. Also I don't see cards that rival it comming out such as a turn 2 natural 5/1 or a turn 0 natural 1/3. Everyone is getting mad over my opinion (some a little too mad) but it is still just an opinion.

I personally am rooting against villain even though I just bought all of the cards to play it.

edit: call me a bad player all you want, but the fact is I am not. I was top tier in DBZ ccg and in redbz yes the no cost attacks were broken. I have looked at the combos and the cards to get around the deck and they are not impressive. Kamehameha does not effect buyon and if i play resisting power, which is amazing, your not touching metalitron either. and if you solar flare to play it, even better you waist ki and cards. Again take this as an opinion, disreguard it even I am just calling it as I see it.

First off, you can't say that since everyone is disagreeing with you that dropping the argument makes your statement completely invalid. You're also missing the fact that at best Metallitron at turn 2 can be a 9, but that means you're probably taken at LEAST 3 planet damage because your only had General white and SCR before t2. Three pd at that point is pretty big. If you're playing an alien deck who captures and stomps (and you DON'T have to be a rushing alien deck to run those cards) you're just plain sunk.

Kamehameha may not effect Buyon but I'll be sure to point out that Wolf fang fist does. (For the super decks out there). Most other types (Earth aside) have plunder, which CERTAINLY effects Buyon.

That being said. You dismissing an argument because your losing doesn't make you any more correct than when you first declared this post.

[swordmaster]

firstly snow I truly respect your opinion greatly I feel you know the game and I am sure you know more than me on the game.

That being said I am not arguing, at least I am trying very hard not to. I am simply stating my opinion ppl are assuming that one crazy good deck type one that breaks the caps set by the game so far (which is what I said) means the game is done pack up the end. I am not saying this at all. I am simply stating that the deck is cheap and crazy good so much so that in order to top it your will have to deal with it rather than it deal with you. (ie; top tier) This is not like all colors/styles either I think it is a step above. Each set has been much stronger than the last, as previously stated the power creep on this set alone is 3 to 4 team power over the last set, nothing is wrong with this. The game is not dead, I never said that, if it was I probably would not be here writing this . I think that the creep on villain is too much, but obviously others do not. And if I am not mistaken you run villain/alien yourself despite the fact that there are cards that you feel are too strong, like four witches. Not saying that is the only deck you run, b4 you get mad or something, I am sure you have others that work great, i personally run super/unique, and I have had some success with it despite the fact that ppl can chump block all day and nothing bad happens. I am not trying to make my statement more valid i am simply making it. Also I have not tried to make anyone else's opinion less valid, this is what discussion board is for. Discussion not arguing.

Personally, I hope this thread helps the game since it is still in the small stages, ppl read this look at the new cards an build a fantastic deck that can destroy villains or takes the RR format and build villain deck to its potential that I see it having, then i hope for the next set to come out and they keep playing.

If I offended ppl with this tread I am sorry, but it does look like strong opinions have come out.

[onlymymom]

There are still alot of cards not previewed. There are also plenty of other combionations and decktypes that can be equally as good or even better.

[DBZFan]

While it is true that villain is certainly a good deck type to run, it does not trump the other 2 mono's totally (those who don't know........NOOBS!!!). I will say that every deck has there own statagy, and villain is so good cause i only have to spend 20 bucks getting together a killer villain deck, while i have to spend 100+ to get a killer mono alien deck.

[scubadude]

I think they will be pretty balanced out once set 3 comes out .

[soviet prince]

we have not even seen all the cards in set 3 yet and were calling the type broke :(

[DBZFan]

we have not even seen all the cards in set 3 yet and were calling the type broke :(

But here is the thing, it WONT be broke. Bandai has really done a great job of balancing out the game (I really can't believe how well it is fairing sofar) People the first set claplained about captured, then about gen blue. Look how great (not BROKE!!!) those cards came out. And u look me in the eye and say bandai hasn't balanced out the super rares. Thanks bandai! U've done a great job so far! Keep it up!

[onlymymom]

Only thing that they have to realize - and I agree they have been doing a good job - is they underpower cards too much. There are good cards, and there isn't any power creep yet. They are just trying TOO hard to keep the game balanced that a good amount of the cards are jank.

[SSJ Puar]

we have not even seen all the cards in set 3 yet and were calling the type broke :(

Remis me of when all we had was WR and everyone was complaining about how broke super was always gonna be because they had strong characters >.<. Now look at super, IMO with WR and AW its No.4 when it comes to the five monos.

1 Unique
2 Villain
3 Alien
4 Super
5 Earth

[Piccolo'sDad]

Only thing that they have to realize - and I agree they have been doing a good job - is they underpower cards too much. There are good cards, and there isn't any power creep yet. They are just trying TOO hard to keep the game balanced that a good amount of the cards are jank.

I'd rather that everything be slightly underpowered than have some overpowered.

[onlymymom]

I'd rather that everything be slightly underpowered than have some overpowered.

I don't want overpowered, I want balanced. While I agree they are doing a good job, they could tone it up slightly.

[swordmaster]

We have 6 players; 3 play villain mono decks, 1 plays alien/villain, 1 plays mono alien and I play super/unique (basically cause everyone else played villain or alien). Now I am changing to villain on the 30th. Speaking from what I have seen in my home town.

I think ranking goes more like this for awakening from what I have seen:
Villain
Alien
Unique
Super
Earth

So far in destructive fury it has not changed much, can't include alien and super yet though, but so far everything is in its same place.
Villain
Unique
Earth

[DBZFan]

I don't want overpowered, I want balanced. While I agree they are doing a good job, they could tone it up slightly.

U know what, i tottally agree with you. Some of the bigger cards (ss gohan, cell complete) are left wanting more. BUT, as piccolo'sdad said, i'd rather have underpowered than over.

And it really is just the super side that is underpowered (trunks did not deserve a SR in the awakening)

[swordmaster]

bandai pretty much always does that though. Look at how many super rares are in naruto and how many are main decked. There has to be over 50 total. Usually about 6 of the same ones, total are in various decks. Super rares usually mean big names not big cards, at least that is what i see them as being. of course there are a few exceptions, 3 or four super rares that are amazing, but there are a few commons and uncommons that are amazing as well.

To tell you the truth I think that is a good thing. I played old DBZ by Score and at the end, every deck that was competitive consisted of 75 promos and super rares while you might have had 5 commons un-commons and rares in the decks. I know when the game ended my deck probably had 300 dollars worth of cards in it, so basically if a new player wanted to join they had no chance if they did not front major cash. I think bandai has done a good job keeping things cheap for their up and coming players that I am certain about.

[DBZFan]

To tell you the truth I think that is a good thing. I played old DBZ by Score and at the end, every deck that was competitive consisted of 75 promos and super rares while you might have had 5 commons un-commons and rares in the decks. I know when the game ended my deck probably had 300 dollars worth of cards in it, so basically if a new player wanted to join they had no chance if they did not front major cash. I think bandai has done a good job keeping things cheap for their up and coming players that I am certain about.

Agreed. I played old Z, and unless u had some serious $$$ u got ur $$$ kicked in old Z. Bandai once agian has done a great job, for i have a good mono villain deck for under 30 bucks

[Goggles123]

Personally I still think Alien has enough control to handle Villian. Stomping, Captured, and General Broke (every deck really). I don't really have that much of a problem with them at all. I just have to avoid / bait their killer techs.

[BalanceBJJ]

Alien Rush deck can put it to current Villian Decks, Mono Alien not as much

[swordmaster]

Why do the good guys suck?!!!

[Random-Man]

I love how people fly off the handle over everything. This is basically the same thing that happened last set when General Blue was previewed. Everyone acted like he would be the end of the game but as you can see in the current meta, that isn't the case at all.

I wouldn't put any confidence into the words of this doomsayer without seeing the full set. Bandai isn't about to ruin their game with a couple new cards. They will balance things out like they have. Also, Villain is really good now but without another good technique to back them up they will just be blowing steam.

I just had to bring this back.

lol I never forget a good forehadowing

[theyellowdart]

I just had to bring this back.

lol I never forget a good forehadowing

lol, villain is super broken now after set 5. :)

[swordmaster]

people who say i am wrong can suck it! :)

[the Joker0122]

people who say i am wrong can suck it! :)

Ewww noo lol

[LordxMugen]

Purple Power is still amazing. just now instead of androids and red ribbon. we have pirates, cooler, and king yemma. Mahogany!!!!

[swordmaster]

I agree the bojack deck is beast. I still wanna see how my deck fairs against it.

[the Joker0122]

I agree the bojack deck is beast. I still wanna see how my deck fairs against it.

Bojack Pafu Pafu is what Im running :D

[Random-Man]

Bojack Pafu Pafu is what Im running :D

YEHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! Pafu pafu is going to see play!!!!!!!!!!!